4 ms·

> They're not Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. Sure it's not because of Kayak, this is simply another data point that consumers are wary of Boeing.

by wand3r 3y ago

> They're not Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. Sure it's not because of Kayak, this is simply another data point that consumers are wary of Boeing. Boeing is massively fucking up and even though procurement cycles are extremely long, it definitely will have an impact. They are a plane and rocket company that can't build planes or rockets

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month Due to the threat of damages from airlines for the cost of groundings and regulation. Not passengers who book through aggregators checking a box.
- simonklitj 3y ago
  I’ll quote wand3r back to you: > Sure it's not because of Kayak
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    Neither is it because consumers are wary. They may be. But not in a market-impacting way. “I won’t fly Boeing” is 2024’s Kony 2012.
    - dingnuts 3y ago
      For that to be true, the whole Boeing fiasco would have to be a hoax, when it instead seems to be becoming a very concerning pattern. I'm very happy to learn that JetBlue is AirBus-only in this thread. I already am an anxious flyer with a trip coming up in six months and it'd be a lie to say I wasn't considering just driving, even though that's statistically more dangerous, it's a situation where I have more perceived control.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > an anxious flyer with a trip coming up in six months and it'd be a lie to say I wasn't considering just driving Sure. But someone travelling once in six months, and actively weighing flying versus driving, isn’t a market-moving customer. I have no doubt some demand destruction is happening. But it’s not along frequent fliers. Airlines are clamouring to get their planes recertified because they know they’ll be filled.
    - stickfigure 3y ago
      > “I won’t fly Boeing” is 2024’s Kony 2012. I'm going to call BS on this. Airline passengers are willing to endure all manner of indignities just to shave a few bucks off their ticket price. I'll believe Boeing is in trouble after Spirit and Ryanair go out of business. On the other hand, Kony is apparently still walking around free. So maybe the comparison is apt.
gnu8 3y ago
> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. I hear Warren Buffet’s voice over my shoulder telling me “Boeing stock is on sale.” Boeing is a huge defense contractor that is never going away. Maybe this is the bottom of their current crisis and it is a good time to buy?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  Boeing is an institution. Boeing shareholders are not. If the problems are systemic, the government can put Boeing into bankruptcy to wipe the slate clean.
  - sitzkrieg 3y ago
    just like the automobile industry...
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > like the automobile industry Yes. GM and Chrysler went bankrupt [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_re... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Chapter_11_reorganization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Chapter_11_reorgani...
- otherme123 3y ago
  A stock falling prices doesn't mean it is cheap. Buffett sold J&J just because they changed management, and he probably wasn't confortable with the new bosses. They don't have any other know drawbacks, and if you read investment media each one of them has one theory. OTOH Buffett has said many times that stocks related with flying are usually a bad investment. And even when he invest, he says that he doesn't know why he keep doing it, as he knows it's a mistake. And finally, he usually says that he no longer buy "cheap companies to take a last puff of a cigar butt", but "great companies that are going to do great forever". Now do the aggregate: bad management + air stock + company in decline = not cheap for Buffett. The small investor could cash a rebound if it happens, but a behemot like B&H is not interested.
S201 3y ago
> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. Sounds like a good time to buy it then. There's a 0% chance the government would let Boeing go down so it will rebound just like it did with the last 737 issue a few years ago.
- ChadNauseam 3y ago
  Just because the government won't let Boeing go bankrupt doesn't mean Boeing shares will provide the exact same return to investors no matter what. An incident like this should reduce our expectations of how much Boeing will pay investors in dividends/buybacks, so the share price should be lower.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > because the government won't let Boeing go bankrupt This keeps being repeated. It isn’t true. The government won’t let Boeing go under. It’s fine letting it go bankrupt.
    - rurban 3y ago
      The goverment might try to give Boeing back from McDonnel/Chicago to Boeing. As it should have happened years ago already. It's critical infrastructure for them.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > it will rebound just like it did with the last 737 issue a few years ago I’m eyeballing the boeing 5Y stock graph and I’m not seeing that rebound. It was around USD 330 when the MCAS issue grounded them. Then it was riding above 300 until the march of 2020. Collapsed there presumably due to Covid and then the highest ever it climbed was last year december with USD 260. It seems if you bought stock just after their grounding you are very much in the red with that to this day. So where is the rebound?
  - S201 3y ago
    Lion Air 610 crashed October 29, 2018. BA closed at $357 that day. It continued to go down to $304 on December 17th 2018. By February 25 2019 it hit a high of $440. A month later Ethiopian Airlines 302 crashed sending BA down again. The larger issue beyond this was covid sending the stock plummeting so it didn't really have a chance to rebound after the affected 737 models were recertified and not grounded anymore. But you're coming at this from a long term investing point of view. If you're day trading or swing trading (which is likely given it's an individual stock and buying individual stocks for a long term investment is rarely a good idea) then it presents an opportunity. Of course, nothing is a sure bet in the market but seeing something like Boeing down 18% can present a short term opportunity for speculators. Would I put BA in my retirement funds? Absolutely not. Would I try to swing trade BA in a case like this? There's a good chance.

by wand3r 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month Due to the threat of damages from airlines for the cost of groundings and regulation. Not passengers who book through aggregators checking a box.

simonklitj 3y ago
I’ll quote wand3r back to you: > Sure it's not because of Kayak
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  Neither is it because consumers are wary. They may be. But not in a market-impacting way. “I won’t fly Boeing” is 2024’s Kony 2012.
  - dingnuts 3y ago
    For that to be true, the whole Boeing fiasco would have to be a hoax, when it instead seems to be becoming a very concerning pattern. I'm very happy to learn that JetBlue is AirBus-only in this thread. I already am an anxious flyer with a trip coming up in six months and it'd be a lie to say I wasn't considering just driving, even though that's statistically more dangerous, it's a situation where I have more perceived control.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > an anxious flyer with a trip coming up in six months and it'd be a lie to say I wasn't considering just driving Sure. But someone travelling once in six months, and actively weighing flying versus driving, isn’t a market-moving customer. I have no doubt some demand destruction is happening. But it’s not along frequent fliers. Airlines are clamouring to get their planes recertified because they know they’ll be filled.
  - stickfigure 3y ago
    > “I won’t fly Boeing” is 2024’s Kony 2012. I'm going to call BS on this. Airline passengers are willing to endure all manner of indignities just to shave a few bucks off their ticket price. I'll believe Boeing is in trouble after Spirit and Ryanair go out of business. On the other hand, Kony is apparently still walking around free. So maybe the comparison is apt.

gnu8 3y ago

> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. I hear Warren Buffet’s voice over my shoulder telling me “Boeing stock is on sale.” Boeing is a huge defense contractor that is never going away. Maybe this is the bottom of their current crisis and it is a good time to buy?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
Boeing is an institution. Boeing shareholders are not. If the problems are systemic, the government can put Boeing into bankruptcy to wipe the slate clean.
- sitzkrieg 3y ago
  just like the automobile industry...
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > like the automobile industry Yes. GM and Chrysler went bankrupt [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_re... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Chapter_11_reorganization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Chapter_11_reorgani...
otherme123 3y ago
A stock falling prices doesn't mean it is cheap. Buffett sold J&J just because they changed management, and he probably wasn't confortable with the new bosses. They don't have any other know drawbacks, and if you read investment media each one of them has one theory. OTOH Buffett has said many times that stocks related with flying are usually a bad investment. And even when he invest, he says that he doesn't know why he keep doing it, as he knows it's a mistake. And finally, he usually says that he no longer buy "cheap companies to take a last puff of a cigar butt", but "great companies that are going to do great forever". Now do the aggregate: bad management + air stock + company in decline = not cheap for Buffett. The small investor could cash a rebound if it happens, but a behemot like B&H is not interested.

S201 3y ago

> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. Sounds like a good time to buy it then. There's a 0% chance the government would let Boeing go down so it will rebound just like it did with the last 737 issue a few years ago.

ChadNauseam 3y ago
Just because the government won't let Boeing go bankrupt doesn't mean Boeing shares will provide the exact same return to investors no matter what. An incident like this should reduce our expectations of how much Boeing will pay investors in dividends/buybacks, so the share price should be lower.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > because the government won't let Boeing go bankrupt This keeps being repeated. It isn’t true. The government won’t let Boeing go under. It’s fine letting it go bankrupt.
  - rurban 3y ago
    The goverment might try to give Boeing back from McDonnel/Chicago to Boeing. As it should have happened years ago already. It's critical infrastructure for them.
krisoft 3y ago
> it will rebound just like it did with the last 737 issue a few years ago I’m eyeballing the boeing 5Y stock graph and I’m not seeing that rebound. It was around USD 330 when the MCAS issue grounded them. Then it was riding above 300 until the march of 2020. Collapsed there presumably due to Covid and then the highest ever it climbed was last year december with USD 260. It seems if you bought stock just after their grounding you are very much in the red with that to this day. So where is the rebound?
- S201 3y ago
  Lion Air 610 crashed October 29, 2018. BA closed at $357 that day. It continued to go down to $304 on December 17th 2018. By February 25 2019 it hit a high of $440. A month later Ethiopian Airlines 302 crashed sending BA down again. The larger issue beyond this was covid sending the stock plummeting so it didn't really have a chance to rebound after the affected 737 models were recertified and not grounded anymore. But you're coming at this from a long term investing point of view. If you're day trading or swing trading (which is likely given it's an individual stock and buying individual stocks for a long term investment is rarely a good idea) then it presents an opportunity. Of course, nothing is a sure bet in the market but seeing something like Boeing down 18% can present a short term opportunity for speculators. Would I put BA in my retirement funds? Absolutely not. Would I try to swing trade BA in a case like this? There's a good chance.