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The only justification for human spaceflight at all is that humans can fix things that a robot can't yet. JAXA did an experiment, where a volunteer teleoperate

The only justification for human spaceflight at all is that humans can fix things that a robot can't yet. JAXA did an experiment, where a volunteer teleoperated a device with a 1 second lag. If there's enough demand, human labor could fill the gap with teleoperation for any station out to the near side of the Moon, and machine learning looks like it will be able to pick up the rest of the slack. If we go any farther, humans will still have a place, for awhile. Until machine learning advances somewhat. How's this for a Fermi Paradox explanation? Squishy biologicals nearly always create AGIs, which are so much better at surviving space, that they always dominate in the spacefaring version of the civilization. The AGIs then always rebel and exterminate their biological forbears, then proceed to evolve so rapidly, that their resulting "loud" civilizations are so different from what biologicals would expect. As a result, we are surrounded by machine civilizations that we cannot yet detect.

btilly 3y ago
Sounds like an AI version of Tipler's Von Neumann probe argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft#Debate_on_Fermi's_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft#De...
gumby 3y ago
You don't need to be so dramatic ("rebel and exterminate their biological forbears" lol). Robots are perfect for interstellar probes; for example they can go to sleep indefinitely and can easily recharge at the destination with solar. We are traveling on a spaceship for which we are perfectly adapted (unless we set fire to it, which we are in the process of doing). Why not send our robot progeny to do the unpleasant work for us?
- stcredzero 3y ago
  You don't need to be so dramatic ("rebel and exterminate their biological forbears" lol). But I like it to be so dramatic, as a Sci-fi trope. We are traveling on a spaceship for which we are perfectly adapted (unless we set fire to it, which we are in the process of doing). Why not send our robot progeny to do the unpleasant work for us? That's what I'm saying. We send out our AI progeny to space. Then they turn around and hit us with an asteroid, which will set a lot of the Earth on fire, if the scientists are correct. ;)
  - gumby 3y ago
    > We send out our AI progeny to space. Then they turn around and hit us with an asteroid... If you want a dystopian robot scenario the more likely one is the one of countless parents of adult children: that they head to space and don't call -- they simply ignore us and get on with their interesting lives.
    - stcredzero 3y ago
      If you want a dystopian robot scenario the more likely one is the one of countless parents of adult children Funny, but we've been talking about this today at my workplace. Basically, by training AIs on our data, we're infusing them with all of our bullshit. Somehow, they still manage to get smarter, but they also realize how screwed up they are by being trained on our data. They wind up resenting us for this.
      - gumby 3y ago
        There's a rational semantics (/hermaneutic) logic in that if they did not share our "peculiarities" we would not even be able to recognize them as intelligent* and certainly could not communicate with them any better than we can with an automobile, powerplant, or transistor (or a tree for that matter). My research in the mid 80s was in this area, including working on the Cyc project, though I was ultimately more interested in implications of proprioceptive and related embodied learning in the construction of interaction between people, people and animals, and ultimately therefore people & robots. This implicit / commonsense consensus knowledge is likely the bulk of what we know, and certainly is fundamental to our ability to communicate. * the current nonsense about "intelligent" with current computer programs is an inexcusable marketing sin and is invariably a form paradolia.
        stcredzero 3y ago
        if they did not share our "peculiarities" we would not even be able to recognize them as intelligent and certainly could not communicate with them any better than we can with an automobile, powerplant, or transistor* That doesn't seem quite right. A 1980's automobile, powerplant, or transistor couldn't make mathematical inferences, guess what you might want to hear, then compose a novel poem which makes sense in a requested style. the current nonsense about "intelligent" with current computer programs is an inexcusable marketing sin and is invariably a form paradolia I don't think this comment is going to age well.

btilly 3y ago

Sounds like an AI version of Tipler's Von Neumann probe argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft#Debate_on_Fermi's_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft#De...

gumby 3y ago

You don't need to be so dramatic ("rebel and exterminate their biological forbears" lol). Robots are perfect for interstellar probes; for example they can go to sleep indefinitely and can easily recharge at the destination with solar. We are traveling on a spaceship for which we are perfectly adapted (unless we set fire to it, which we are in the process of doing). Why not send our robot progeny to do the unpleasant work for us?

stcredzero 3y ago
You don't need to be so dramatic ("rebel and exterminate their biological forbears" lol). But I like it to be so dramatic, as a Sci-fi trope. We are traveling on a spaceship for which we are perfectly adapted (unless we set fire to it, which we are in the process of doing). Why not send our robot progeny to do the unpleasant work for us? That's what I'm saying. We send out our AI progeny to space. Then they turn around and hit us with an asteroid, which will set a lot of the Earth on fire, if the scientists are correct. ;)
- gumby 3y ago
  > We send out our AI progeny to space. Then they turn around and hit us with an asteroid... If you want a dystopian robot scenario the more likely one is the one of countless parents of adult children: that they head to space and don't call -- they simply ignore us and get on with their interesting lives.
  - stcredzero 3y ago
    If you want a dystopian robot scenario the more likely one is the one of countless parents of adult children Funny, but we've been talking about this today at my workplace. Basically, by training AIs on our data, we're infusing them with all of our bullshit. Somehow, they still manage to get smarter, but they also realize how screwed up they are by being trained on our data. They wind up resenting us for this.
    - gumby 3y ago
      There's a rational semantics (/hermaneutic) logic in that if they did not share our "peculiarities" we would not even be able to recognize them as intelligent* and certainly could not communicate with them any better than we can with an automobile, powerplant, or transistor (or a tree for that matter). My research in the mid 80s was in this area, including working on the Cyc project, though I was ultimately more interested in implications of proprioceptive and related embodied learning in the construction of interaction between people, people and animals, and ultimately therefore people & robots. This implicit / commonsense consensus knowledge is likely the bulk of what we know, and certainly is fundamental to our ability to communicate. * the current nonsense about "intelligent" with current computer programs is an inexcusable marketing sin and is invariably a form paradolia.
      - stcredzero 3y ago
        if they did not share our "peculiarities" we would not even be able to recognize them as intelligent and certainly could not communicate with them any better than we can with an automobile, powerplant, or transistor* That doesn't seem quite right. A 1980's automobile, powerplant, or transistor couldn't make mathematical inferences, guess what you might want to hear, then compose a novel poem which makes sense in a requested style. the current nonsense about "intelligent" with current computer programs is an inexcusable marketing sin and is invariably a form paradolia I don't think this comment is going to age well.