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1. git is not hard if you learn it 2. I regularly see people storing multiple gigabyte files in git.. I don't understand your issue with large files. 3. cloud

1. git is not hard if you learn it 2. I regularly see people storing multiple gigabyte files in git.. I don't understand your issue with large files. 3. cloud native? why? part of the point of git is to have a repo decentralized away from centralized clouds onto dev's machines, if your data scientist broke git then that means your main branch configuration is off, no one else had that cloned onto their machines, and the rest of you don't know how to recover lost data which is stored in the reflog.... even ignoring the lack of simple CICD. 4. > Diversion is built on top of distributed storage and databases, accessible via REST API, and runs on serverless cloud infrastructure What!?!?!? That is NOT a selling point....all that for a VCS? You're literally taking everything that makes git great and saying that's what's wrong with git. The only case you could make to sell this is maybe some sort of a high-end niche specific media heavy version control for storage intense users. I would think that this is a college project but apparently you guys have a team size of 9 according to the website!!! This is wild! It kind of feels like an insult to Linus Torvalds.

igorguerrero 3y ago
This comment is harsh, but the reality.
dafelst 3y ago
I don't think you understand the scale of large creative projects like games. The current (only medium sized) Unreal Engine project I'm working on has about 300k files in the head alone, and a fresh sync for the stuff only required to build/cook the game is about 350GB. If you add the raw content from things like Maya, substance Painter, brush, etc, it is well in excess of 1TB. Vanilla git just does not scale to this. Microsoft git and Scalar get much closer, but require a bunch more setup and are a giant foot gun if someone tries to use the repo with vanilla git. Add to that the lack of permissions control and remote management, and it is just not a good fit for an industry where say 75% of the contributors are non technical. Git is a fantastic tool and works for the vast majority of software projects, but there are non trivial amount of projects out there that it just doesn't suit. Perforce, as horrible as it is, is the game and VFX industry default for a reason - think of it this way, given how notoriously cost driven and penny pinching games companies are, don't you think they'd be using a free/cheaper alternative in hosted Git if they could? But they don't. This is why. Good luck to the Diversion team, more competition in this part of the market can only be a good thing.
- hasty_pudding 3y ago
  How niche is your use case? Despite all the questions I have about storing un-versioned large media files in Git instead of EC2 and your lack of good management about modularizing the code base and lack of build tooling....thats the use case I specifically stated in my post. The monstrosity that is Diversion could have great benefits for niche use cases like yours. i.e. large media file Version Control for teams who aren't knowledgeable about how to manage large code bases. If for some reason you want to pay an additional nine person team with a huge infrastructure instead of just using EC2 and a build script..feel free.
  - Arelius 3y ago
    EC2 and a build script? Are you implying that the parents 1TB of assets are "un-versioned large media"? If so, I'm sorry you are being very dismissive about something you don't fully understand.
    - hasty_pudding 3y ago
      well then modularize your code better! git can handle large repositories there's no reason you should have a one terabyte repository unless youre Google or something with the money to write your own VCS. but if you want to pay for a nine developer team with a massive cloud infrastructure for something like version control.... go for it!!! I'm going to check back a year from now and see if products still exists
      - Arelius 3y ago
        sigh So, in GameDev, art assets are as important to the final game as code. And is, just as important to be version controlled as code. And sure, you can split it up between many different repositories, and call it modular But you're just adding complexity, and not really solving the core problem which is that a single version of an art assets can possibly be > 1G, and be a poor format to be stored delta-encoded, so each revision can possibly be nearly a full duplicate. (Yes, we can talk about the file formats being a poor fit for VCS, which is true, but GameDevs are just trying to make their product) And again, it's really important for game assets to be version controlled. And maybe Git isn't the best place for the assets to exist in version control, but we are in a thread about Diversion and not Git. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm uncertain that Diversion will exist in a year when you check-back, But I can guarantee you that Perforce will, and if Unity doesn't continue it's trajectory of destroying everything it touches, Plastic should continue to exist also. I don't even completely disagree, Diversion, P4, and Plastic appear to be a bad fit for code in comparison to git, and even in our studio we've taken a modular approach (gasp) and store our code in git, while using a better suited VCS for assets. But it doesn't change the fact that you are being very dismissive for something that you very clearly know nothing about, and clearly have far too much ego to even be interested in a legitimate dialog about.
acidburnNSA 3y ago
> 1. git is not hard if you learn it I basically agree. People want to just pick up a tool like git and have it just work without investing much time in it. I can understand this desire in a complex world with many tools, but something as powerful as git is really worth learning. I swear if people spent like 1 hour a day for a week in actual git training, and then did refreshers 1 hour a month as they were using it on a team, this would be less of a problem. You don't need to know every feature, but knowing how to rebase, use the reflog, use the pickaxe, understand the concept/value of bisect and how to look up how to use it, etc. is so valuable. The other day a professional developer told me he didn't know you could write more than 1 line in a git commit message. WTF.
- hasty_pudding 3y ago
  I don't even use that stuff 99.9999% of the time. You can literally get by with knowing like 5% of git and be extremely productive with it. that other stuff does come in extremely handy for troubleshooting or fixing mess ups, but people struggle with just the very basics of git. what you need to be productive with git can be learned in a morning.

igorguerrero 3y ago

This comment is harsh, but the reality.

dafelst 3y ago

I don't think you understand the scale of large creative projects like games. The current (only medium sized) Unreal Engine project I'm working on has about 300k files in the head alone, and a fresh sync for the stuff only required to build/cook the game is about 350GB. If you add the raw content from things like Maya, substance Painter, brush, etc, it is well in excess of 1TB. Vanilla git just does not scale to this. Microsoft git and Scalar get much closer, but require a bunch more setup and are a giant foot gun if someone tries to use the repo with vanilla git. Add to that the lack of permissions control and remote management, and it is just not a good fit for an industry where say 75% of the contributors are non technical. Git is a fantastic tool and works for the vast majority of software projects, but there are non trivial amount of projects out there that it just doesn't suit. Perforce, as horrible as it is, is the game and VFX industry default for a reason - think of it this way, given how notoriously cost driven and penny pinching games companies are, don't you think they'd be using a free/cheaper alternative in hosted Git if they could? But they don't. This is why. Good luck to the Diversion team, more competition in this part of the market can only be a good thing.

hasty_pudding 3y ago
How niche is your use case? Despite all the questions I have about storing un-versioned large media files in Git instead of EC2 and your lack of good management about modularizing the code base and lack of build tooling....thats the use case I specifically stated in my post. The monstrosity that is Diversion could have great benefits for niche use cases like yours. i.e. large media file Version Control for teams who aren't knowledgeable about how to manage large code bases. If for some reason you want to pay an additional nine person team with a huge infrastructure instead of just using EC2 and a build script..feel free.
- Arelius 3y ago
  EC2 and a build script? Are you implying that the parents 1TB of assets are "un-versioned large media"? If so, I'm sorry you are being very dismissive about something you don't fully understand.
  - hasty_pudding 3y ago
    well then modularize your code better! git can handle large repositories there's no reason you should have a one terabyte repository unless youre Google or something with the money to write your own VCS. but if you want to pay for a nine developer team with a massive cloud infrastructure for something like version control.... go for it!!! I'm going to check back a year from now and see if products still exists
    - Arelius 3y ago
      sigh So, in GameDev, art assets are as important to the final game as code. And is, just as important to be version controlled as code. And sure, you can split it up between many different repositories, and call it modular But you're just adding complexity, and not really solving the core problem which is that a single version of an art assets can possibly be > 1G, and be a poor format to be stored delta-encoded, so each revision can possibly be nearly a full duplicate. (Yes, we can talk about the file formats being a poor fit for VCS, which is true, but GameDevs are just trying to make their product) And again, it's really important for game assets to be version controlled. And maybe Git isn't the best place for the assets to exist in version control, but we are in a thread about Diversion and not Git. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm uncertain that Diversion will exist in a year when you check-back, But I can guarantee you that Perforce will, and if Unity doesn't continue it's trajectory of destroying everything it touches, Plastic should continue to exist also. I don't even completely disagree, Diversion, P4, and Plastic appear to be a bad fit for code in comparison to git, and even in our studio we've taken a modular approach (gasp) and store our code in git, while using a better suited VCS for assets. But it doesn't change the fact that you are being very dismissive for something that you very clearly know nothing about, and clearly have far too much ego to even be interested in a legitimate dialog about.

acidburnNSA 3y ago

> 1. git is not hard if you learn it I basically agree. People want to just pick up a tool like git and have it just work without investing much time in it. I can understand this desire in a complex world with many tools, but something as powerful as git is really worth learning. I swear if people spent like 1 hour a day for a week in actual git training, and then did refreshers 1 hour a month as they were using it on a team, this would be less of a problem. You don't need to know every feature, but knowing how to rebase, use the reflog, use the pickaxe, understand the concept/value of bisect and how to look up how to use it, etc. is so valuable. The other day a professional developer told me he didn't know you could write more than 1 line in a git commit message. WTF.

hasty_pudding 3y ago
I don't even use that stuff 99.9999% of the time. You can literally get by with knowing like 5% of git and be extremely productive with it. that other stuff does come in extremely handy for troubleshooting or fixing mess ups, but people struggle with just the very basics of git. what you need to be productive with git can be learned in a morning.