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Actually... 737 MAX is roughly 30 times as dangerous as the other planes in its category (eg. A320). Source: https://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

by D_Alex 3y ago

Actually... 737 MAX is roughly 30 times as dangerous as the other planes in its category (eg. A320). Source: https://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm https://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

kube-system 3y ago
Every MAX flying now has had updates made to address the two events captured in those statistics, so those stats capture something different than today’s reality.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  They're all being put together by Spirit Aerosystems which is a company that makes zero gross profit and has interest rate payments which are half of its gross revenue on top of that, which was spun off out of Boeing in order to aggressively cut costs and bust unions and fluff up Boeing's stock price. That hasn't changed at all.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Spirit Aerosystems also does work for Airbus.
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      "Our business depends largely on sales of components for a single aircraft program, the B737 MAX" -- Spirit Aerosystems 2022 10-K filing They do 3 times as much business with Boeing than Airbus. (Airbus may also wrap Spirit in their own Q/A process to mitigate the issues, which Boeing is certainly lacking)
      - lamontcg 3y ago
        Also this article just hit the front page today: https://viewfromthewing.com/boeing-whistleblower-production-line-has-enormous-volume-of-defects-bolts-on-max-9-werent-installed/ https://viewfromthewing.com/boeing-whistleblower-production-... The worry is that Airbus is ALSO going to be affected by this shitty quality, not that Boeing isn't totally fucked by its outsourcing to Spirit Aerosystems.
    - albert180 3y ago
      Different purchasers can have different expectations of quality and pay the company differently;-)
- pi-e-sigma 3y ago
  If you apply this reasoning to the MAX statistics, then you have to apply it to the statistics of all the other planes, too, which also received various changes and updates during their service lives improving their safety and you are back to square one, that is MAX is much less safe than other planes
  - kube-system 3y ago
    It is definitely fair to apply that to other planes. e.g the DC10
    - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
      That's the problem with the reputation and the perception of safety. If you lose it then even if you finally fix the underlying issues people will still have a hard time believing you.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        That's why we have regulators who scientifically qualify safety, rather than leaning on public opinion. Public opinion isn't an accurate methodology.

by D_Alex 3y ago

kube-system 3y ago

Every MAX flying now has had updates made to address the two events captured in those statistics, so those stats capture something different than today’s reality.

lamontcg 3y ago
They're all being put together by Spirit Aerosystems which is a company that makes zero gross profit and has interest rate payments which are half of its gross revenue on top of that, which was spun off out of Boeing in order to aggressively cut costs and bust unions and fluff up Boeing's stock price. That hasn't changed at all.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Spirit Aerosystems also does work for Airbus.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    "Our business depends largely on sales of components for a single aircraft program, the B737 MAX" -- Spirit Aerosystems 2022 10-K filing They do 3 times as much business with Boeing than Airbus. (Airbus may also wrap Spirit in their own Q/A process to mitigate the issues, which Boeing is certainly lacking)
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      Also this article just hit the front page today: https://viewfromthewing.com/boeing-whistleblower-production-line-has-enormous-volume-of-defects-bolts-on-max-9-werent-installed/ https://viewfromthewing.com/boeing-whistleblower-production-... The worry is that Airbus is ALSO going to be affected by this shitty quality, not that Boeing isn't totally fucked by its outsourcing to Spirit Aerosystems.
  - albert180 3y ago
    Different purchasers can have different expectations of quality and pay the company differently;-)
pi-e-sigma 3y ago
If you apply this reasoning to the MAX statistics, then you have to apply it to the statistics of all the other planes, too, which also received various changes and updates during their service lives improving their safety and you are back to square one, that is MAX is much less safe than other planes
- kube-system 3y ago
  It is definitely fair to apply that to other planes. e.g the DC10
  - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
    That's the problem with the reputation and the perception of safety. If you lose it then even if you finally fix the underlying issues people will still have a hard time believing you.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      That's why we have regulators who scientifically qualify safety, rather than leaning on public opinion. Public opinion isn't an accurate methodology.