3 ms·

I've always read that it came from "robotnik" which just means "person who is doing something". And I agree, I'm also Polish and "robota" does not imply forced

I've always read that it came from "robotnik" which just means "person who is doing something". And I agree, I'm also Polish and "robota" does not imply forced labour in the slightest, maybe it does in Czech but I doubt it given the close similarity between languages. It's quite common for people to say "Idę do roboty" which just means "I'm going to work"(as in - my place of employment).

pawelwentpawel 3y ago
I'd translate "robotnik" as a "worker". A "person who is doing something" sounds a bit too general. Nevertheless, it's easy to guess that the root of the word is the same verb.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  So “robota” would cover a personal or job-related chore and “robotnik” is a person performing such a chore?
  - rvba 3y ago
    In Polsh: "Robotnik" means *manual* worker. E.g. someone fixing roads, or working in a factory. "Pracownik" is a generic word for "employee". Can be an office worker or an manual worker. "Robić" basically means "to do". While "pracować" means "to work". As you can notice one is more formal than another. "Robota" is a less formal word, something closer to a "gig" (however it also means "work" or "job"). You will probably not find it in written texts. In writing "praca" (work) sounds more formal. As a bonus, if you are a (manual) worker who complains and makes some not subtle digs about your job, you can say that you "have to go to your kołchoz tomorrow" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkhoz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkhoz ). As the communist slogan said "work is your second home" after all :) On a side note, do Czechs really like the polish word "pomidorek"? (Little tomato)
- pauke 3y ago
  No, in Czech the meaning really is more specific and forced labor is not an overly bad translation, it's work done by serfs in medieval times. It can be used to describe any work as heavy, but that's either in joke, or when used by people geographically close to Poland (typically referring to mining).
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    Is there some historical reason for this? I vaguely remember that in English, we have words like “cattle,” French etymology, and “cow” Germanic, and the speculation is that it is because the aristocracy were French for much of England’s history (so, the French word is used to refer to cows as a sort of abstract resource to be considered in bulk).
    - pauke 3y ago
      I believe it's a similar thing. Semi-educated guess based on historical facts: Because of various (not least religious) reasons, Czech-speaking intelligentsia pretty much ceased to exist mid-17th century (fact, replaced by German/Latin) and only actual serfs spoke Czech, work and robota became defacto synonym (speculation). And when it became fashionable and cool to speak Czech 100-200 years later for the city-dwellers (fact), they probably felt the need to differentiate whatever they were doing as a job from the definitely uncool farmers of the countryside (speculation).
      - int_19h 3y ago
        The evolution is the other way around - the original meaning of that root in proto-Slavic was obligatory work, and that one in turn is a derivative of a PIE word with the same meaning. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/orbota https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/o... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/orb%D1%8A https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/o... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h%E2%82%83%C3%B3rb%CA%B0os https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Eur...
rebolek 3y ago
I'm Czech and while those two languages are close, "robota" is really forced work in Czech. What you called "robota" in Polish is called "práce" in Czech. In Czech, "Robota" is forced work and has bad connotations. See https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robota https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robota . It's interesting that this page doesn't have Polish translation.
- petr25102018 3y ago
  In the region where I was growing up next to Poland, we say "chodit do roboty" when describing normal work.
  - tomashubelbauer 3y ago
    A lot of Czech people use this phrase in a very subtle, almost undetectable jest, but it is still fundamentally in jest. Drawing a connection between having to work for a living and likening it to being forced to work. It's similar to saying "Back to the salt mines" meaning back to work.
  - WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
    It cannot be helped if your práce feels much like robota. Which, granted, happens a lot.
  - rebolek 3y ago
    I don't doubt that, you're probably from somewhere around Ostrava. There are of course regional differences. I'm from Brno and instead of "jít do práce" we usually used "jít do hokny", "jít do háčku", or just "jít makat". Whenever I hear word "robota", I connect it with my grand-grand-...-father who was forced to work ("robota") by "dráb" (overseer) and didn't like it. So he cut overseer's head with his scythe, became a village hero and founded a church there. So I'm hard-wired to dislike "robota".
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      > So he cut overseer's head with his scythe, became a village hero and founded a church there do go on, sounds like quite a story in there.
int_19h 3y ago
Etymologically Czech is the most conservative here. In other Slavic languages and in Proto-Slavic the original meaning was also forced/compelled labor (hence also why "rab" or "rob" means "slave" and not "worker" in most East and South Slavic languages). It just happened to evolve into a generic term meaning "labor" because the forced/compelled kind was so widespread and normalized. Slavic languages aren't the only ones with such a trajectory for the term - the German "Arbeit" is directly related and underwent a similar process.
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  I would say that in Polish “robota” has a similar connotation. And “robol” describes a kind of low-level grunt. It’s definitely pejorative. “Praca” is the typical way to talk about work.

pawelwentpawel 3y ago

I'd translate "robotnik" as a "worker". A "person who is doing something" sounds a bit too general. Nevertheless, it's easy to guess that the root of the word is the same verb.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
So “robota” would cover a personal or job-related chore and “robotnik” is a person performing such a chore?
- rvba 3y ago
  In Polsh: "Robotnik" means *manual* worker. E.g. someone fixing roads, or working in a factory. "Pracownik" is a generic word for "employee". Can be an office worker or an manual worker. "Robić" basically means "to do". While "pracować" means "to work". As you can notice one is more formal than another. "Robota" is a less formal word, something closer to a "gig" (however it also means "work" or "job"). You will probably not find it in written texts. In writing "praca" (work) sounds more formal. As a bonus, if you are a (manual) worker who complains and makes some not subtle digs about your job, you can say that you "have to go to your kołchoz tomorrow" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkhoz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkhoz ). As the communist slogan said "work is your second home" after all :) On a side note, do Czechs really like the polish word "pomidorek"? (Little tomato)
pauke 3y ago
No, in Czech the meaning really is more specific and forced labor is not an overly bad translation, it's work done by serfs in medieval times. It can be used to describe any work as heavy, but that's either in joke, or when used by people geographically close to Poland (typically referring to mining).
- bee_rider 3y ago
  Is there some historical reason for this? I vaguely remember that in English, we have words like “cattle,” French etymology, and “cow” Germanic, and the speculation is that it is because the aristocracy were French for much of England’s history (so, the French word is used to refer to cows as a sort of abstract resource to be considered in bulk).
  - pauke 3y ago
    I believe it's a similar thing. Semi-educated guess based on historical facts: Because of various (not least religious) reasons, Czech-speaking intelligentsia pretty much ceased to exist mid-17th century (fact, replaced by German/Latin) and only actual serfs spoke Czech, work and robota became defacto synonym (speculation). And when it became fashionable and cool to speak Czech 100-200 years later for the city-dwellers (fact), they probably felt the need to differentiate whatever they were doing as a job from the definitely uncool farmers of the countryside (speculation).
    - int_19h 3y ago
      The evolution is the other way around - the original meaning of that root in proto-Slavic was obligatory work, and that one in turn is a derivative of a PIE word with the same meaning. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/orbota https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/o... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/orb%D1%8A https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/o... https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h%E2%82%83%C3%B3rb%CA%B0os https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Eur...

rebolek 3y ago

I'm Czech and while those two languages are close, "robota" is really forced work in Czech. What you called "robota" in Polish is called "práce" in Czech. In Czech, "Robota" is forced work and has bad connotations. See https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robota https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robota . It's interesting that this page doesn't have Polish translation.

petr25102018 3y ago
In the region where I was growing up next to Poland, we say "chodit do roboty" when describing normal work.
- tomashubelbauer 3y ago
  A lot of Czech people use this phrase in a very subtle, almost undetectable jest, but it is still fundamentally in jest. Drawing a connection between having to work for a living and likening it to being forced to work. It's similar to saying "Back to the salt mines" meaning back to work.
- WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  It cannot be helped if your práce feels much like robota. Which, granted, happens a lot.
- rebolek 3y ago
  I don't doubt that, you're probably from somewhere around Ostrava. There are of course regional differences. I'm from Brno and instead of "jít do práce" we usually used "jít do hokny", "jít do háčku", or just "jít makat". Whenever I hear word "robota", I connect it with my grand-grand-...-father who was forced to work ("robota") by "dráb" (overseer) and didn't like it. So he cut overseer's head with his scythe, became a village hero and founded a church there. So I'm hard-wired to dislike "robota".
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    > So he cut overseer's head with his scythe, became a village hero and founded a church there do go on, sounds like quite a story in there.

int_19h 3y ago

Etymologically Czech is the most conservative here. In other Slavic languages and in Proto-Slavic the original meaning was also forced/compelled labor (hence also why "rab" or "rob" means "slave" and not "worker" in most East and South Slavic languages). It just happened to evolve into a generic term meaning "labor" because the forced/compelled kind was so widespread and normalized. Slavic languages aren't the only ones with such a trajectory for the term - the German "Arbeit" is directly related and underwent a similar process.

lo_zamoyski 3y ago
I would say that in Polish “robota” has a similar connotation. And “robol” describes a kind of low-level grunt. It’s definitely pejorative. “Praca” is the typical way to talk about work.