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I've been an X11 holdout since forever, but after nvidia proprietary drivers broke for the millionth time on a system upgrade, I switched over to Nouveau and th

I've been an X11 holdout since forever, but after nvidia proprietary drivers broke for the millionth time on a system upgrade, I switched over to Nouveau and the "Hyprland" tiling compositor on Wayland. It's the only setup that felt worth the upgrade to me. Setup was easy, animations are very slick (scroll down on the link below for a sample), and I've had no bugs or quirks. Highly recommend checking it out if you're bored or curious. https://hyprland.org/ https://hyprland.org/

vidarh 3y ago
It looks great, but to me this is pretty much the opposite of what I want to use - the demo video at least is so busy, and full of transitions and other distractions. There was a time I'd absolutely have loved something like that (and had all the window effects turned on when the first compositors started arriving) and it looks very cool, but other than translucency I've progressively stripped back everything. I'll never try to compete with something like that on either effects or features. I might add some very minor eye candy. But that's fine - one of the things I've always loved about the Linux/Unix desktop is how you can get everything from the most minimalist to the effects-laden, and I've used wm's pretty much everywhere on that spectrum myself too over the years. I sympathise re: drivers - that or the browsers finally abandoning X would be the only things that'd give me enough reason to switch. But I'd be more likely to switch if I get around to scratching the itch of yet another homegrown minimalist step down the stack... (I have a weird urge to write a Frankencompositor that supports Wayland clients and enough to support an out-of-band X11 style window manager and the brutally insecure X11 style event snooping and injection; partly because it'd really irritate some Wayland purists - I'm resisting that urge for now because it'd be a massive time-suck)
- maksut 3y ago
  I am eyeing river wm. Because it has pluggable layout manager and controller via custom wayland protocols. Which means I can implement just those parts in my favourite lang to scratch the itch. Kudos to you going for the whole wm :)
  - vidarh 3y ago
    An X11 wm is childs play compared to a Wayland compositor. I have been eyeing River and various other Wayland options too, in case I find myself compelled to switch to Wayland at some point, but the sheer complexity of the Wayland side has held me back.
    - bitwize 3y ago
      Given that X11 is going away, the server (except for Xwayland) is unmaintained, and in a few years modern software just won't support it at all... the sooner you switch, the better.
      - vidarh 3y ago
        There are plenty of Wayland compositors that supports X backends, so app support for X is moot because 1) most of the apps I run are my own - the only thing I really depend on is browsers, and 2) once Chrome and Firefox abandons X entirely, and no other browsers based on their engines supports X, there are options to run them with a Wayland compositor with an X backend in "kiosk mode" that basically gives them a single window just like before. So that leaves how long I will have a working X server, and frankly I suspect I'll have ended up writing a display server years before that becomes an issue (whether that'll be X or Wayland or a mix, who knows, but I doubt I'll be able to resist very long). It's just not a concern that's anywhere near the top of my list (or the top 100 of my list)
        Vecr 3y ago
        You can run an X window manager on a Wayland compositor, as you said the problem is when programs stop running on X at all.
        vidarh 3y ago
        Well, no, even that isn't a problem, because you can run a Wayland compositor on X too. E.g. I tested, and Firefox runs fine in Weston in kiosk mode w/X as the backend. So even when Firefox drops X, it will still run on X as long as a single compositor with an X backend is still running.
- csdvrx 3y ago
  > It looks great, but to me this is pretty much the opposite of what I want to use - the demo video at least is so busy, and full of transitions and other distractions. They are optional: you can make them last 100 ms, or just remove them. Such "eyecandy" enable new uses: for example, all my windows are full screen, on they own desktop. No titlebar, no nothing because that's a waste of space. A quick animation when I change desktop helps me keep a mental map. Also, hyprland great strength is it makes it not just possible but very easy to have a keyboard-centric workflow: you mix the tiling window manager strength with the traditional "windows" you can move with your mouse. F1 gets me to desktop 1 where my terminals live, Shift+F1 can send whatever window I'm using on desktop 1 to share it with the terminal for a while, Win + Left lets me adjust the tiling and Win + J lets me change from horizontal to vertical tiling Last year was my year of Linux on the desktop, and I think I'll stay on Linux if only for hyprland. > I have a weird urge to write a Frankencompositor that supports Wayland clients and enough to support an out-of-band X11 style window manager and the brutally insecure X11 style event snooping and injection; partly because it'd really irritate some Wayland purists Check hyprctl: you can get a list of windows. With hyprland key bindings + basic shell scripts using hyprctl and ydotool to send key or mouse events, it's already possible! From one of my simple scripts: `hyprctl dispatch focuswindow $WINDOW_ID | wl-paste | wl-copy -c` replaced `ydotool type "`wl-paste`"`
  - vidarh 3y ago
    > They are optional: you can make them last 100 ms, or just remove them. I'd rather have a codebase that doesn't have them so that I can work on a codebase that is tiny and focused on what I want when I want to change something. And I would need to make changes to the code base for it to suit me - see below. > Also, hyprland great strength is it makes it not just possible but very easy to have a keyboard-centric workflow: I already have a keyboard-centric workflow that does the things you list. There's nothing new in any of that. I have a floating desktop; I can move and resize them with the keyboard. I can move the tiling windows with the keyboard. I can swap individual windows, or swap entire subtrees, or flip their direction. All of that is trivial on almost any tiling wm. > Check hyprctl: you can get a list of windows. With hyprland key bindings + basic shell scripts using hyprctl and ydotool to send key or mouse events, it's already possible! This has the same flaw that was one of the reasons why I ditched bspwm - it allows getting events from it's 2nd socket - but not to intercept requests and being able to rewrite and choose whether to honor the requests or not. It does not have the flexibility I had in mind. It has a lot of great functionality, but none of the things that I care about provide more than I already have, and some would set me back to the point I'd have to rewrite stuff again - and frankly just the build process for hyprland makes me break out in hives...
deleted 3y ago
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vidarh 3y ago

It looks great, but to me this is pretty much the opposite of what I want to use - the demo video at least is so busy, and full of transitions and other distractions. There was a time I'd absolutely have loved something like that (and had all the window effects turned on when the first compositors started arriving) and it looks very cool, but other than translucency I've progressively stripped back everything. I'll never try to compete with something like that on either effects or features. I might add some very minor eye candy. But that's fine - one of the things I've always loved about the Linux/Unix desktop is how you can get everything from the most minimalist to the effects-laden, and I've used wm's pretty much everywhere on that spectrum myself too over the years. I sympathise re: drivers - that or the browsers finally abandoning X would be the only things that'd give me enough reason to switch. But I'd be more likely to switch if I get around to scratching the itch of yet another homegrown minimalist step down the stack... (I have a weird urge to write a Frankencompositor that supports Wayland clients and enough to support an out-of-band X11 style window manager and the brutally insecure X11 style event snooping and injection; partly because it'd really irritate some Wayland purists - I'm resisting that urge for now because it'd be a massive time-suck)

maksut 3y ago
I am eyeing river wm. Because it has pluggable layout manager and controller via custom wayland protocols. Which means I can implement just those parts in my favourite lang to scratch the itch. Kudos to you going for the whole wm :)
- vidarh 3y ago
  An X11 wm is childs play compared to a Wayland compositor. I have been eyeing River and various other Wayland options too, in case I find myself compelled to switch to Wayland at some point, but the sheer complexity of the Wayland side has held me back.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    Given that X11 is going away, the server (except for Xwayland) is unmaintained, and in a few years modern software just won't support it at all... the sooner you switch, the better.
    - vidarh 3y ago
      There are plenty of Wayland compositors that supports X backends, so app support for X is moot because 1) most of the apps I run are my own - the only thing I really depend on is browsers, and 2) once Chrome and Firefox abandons X entirely, and no other browsers based on their engines supports X, there are options to run them with a Wayland compositor with an X backend in "kiosk mode" that basically gives them a single window just like before. So that leaves how long I will have a working X server, and frankly I suspect I'll have ended up writing a display server years before that becomes an issue (whether that'll be X or Wayland or a mix, who knows, but I doubt I'll be able to resist very long). It's just not a concern that's anywhere near the top of my list (or the top 100 of my list)
      - Vecr 3y ago
        You can run an X window manager on a Wayland compositor, as you said the problem is when programs stop running on X at all.
        vidarh 3y ago
        Well, no, even that isn't a problem, because you can run a Wayland compositor on X too. E.g. I tested, and Firefox runs fine in Weston in kiosk mode w/X as the backend. So even when Firefox drops X, it will still run on X as long as a single compositor with an X backend is still running.
csdvrx 3y ago
> It looks great, but to me this is pretty much the opposite of what I want to use - the demo video at least is so busy, and full of transitions and other distractions. They are optional: you can make them last 100 ms, or just remove them. Such "eyecandy" enable new uses: for example, all my windows are full screen, on they own desktop. No titlebar, no nothing because that's a waste of space. A quick animation when I change desktop helps me keep a mental map. Also, hyprland great strength is it makes it not just possible but very easy to have a keyboard-centric workflow: you mix the tiling window manager strength with the traditional "windows" you can move with your mouse. F1 gets me to desktop 1 where my terminals live, Shift+F1 can send whatever window I'm using on desktop 1 to share it with the terminal for a while, Win + Left lets me adjust the tiling and Win + J lets me change from horizontal to vertical tiling Last year was my year of Linux on the desktop, and I think I'll stay on Linux if only for hyprland. > I have a weird urge to write a Frankencompositor that supports Wayland clients and enough to support an out-of-band X11 style window manager and the brutally insecure X11 style event snooping and injection; partly because it'd really irritate some Wayland purists Check hyprctl: you can get a list of windows. With hyprland key bindings + basic shell scripts using hyprctl and ydotool to send key or mouse events, it's already possible! From one of my simple scripts: `hyprctl dispatch focuswindow $WINDOW_ID | wl-paste | wl-copy -c` replaced `ydotool type "`wl-paste`"`
- vidarh 3y ago
  > They are optional: you can make them last 100 ms, or just remove them. I'd rather have a codebase that doesn't have them so that I can work on a codebase that is tiny and focused on what I want when I want to change something. And I would need to make changes to the code base for it to suit me - see below. > Also, hyprland great strength is it makes it not just possible but very easy to have a keyboard-centric workflow: I already have a keyboard-centric workflow that does the things you list. There's nothing new in any of that. I have a floating desktop; I can move and resize them with the keyboard. I can move the tiling windows with the keyboard. I can swap individual windows, or swap entire subtrees, or flip their direction. All of that is trivial on almost any tiling wm. > Check hyprctl: you can get a list of windows. With hyprland key bindings + basic shell scripts using hyprctl and ydotool to send key or mouse events, it's already possible! This has the same flaw that was one of the reasons why I ditched bspwm - it allows getting events from it's 2nd socket - but not to intercept requests and being able to rewrite and choose whether to honor the requests or not. It does not have the flexibility I had in mind. It has a lot of great functionality, but none of the things that I care about provide more than I already have, and some would set me back to the point I'd have to rewrite stuff again - and frankly just the build process for hyprland makes me break out in hives...

deleted 3y ago

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