5 ms·

It's wild to me that folks seem to be unable to figure out how to fix rot at large companies when this is such a toxic set of trials for selecting people to put

by gmd63 3y ago

It's wild to me that folks seem to be unable to figure out how to fix rot at large companies when this is such a toxic set of trials for selecting people to put in power

bdw5204 3y ago
Society can't figure out how to stop the most toxic, corrupt and incompetent people from becoming high ranking politicians so it makes perfect sense for the same kind of rot to be endemic at large corporations. Rotten people gravitate towards power and most of those who aren't rotten are cowards who won't do anything to stop them because that'd risk their own careers or their own relationships with people naive enough to fall for the rotten people who are climbing towards the top. The only thing that fixes this is for a critical mass of people to find the courage to stand up to rotten individuals who are powerful or likely to obtain power soon.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > The only thing that fixes this is for a critical mass of people to find the courage to stand up to rotten individuals who are powerful or likely to obtain power soon. Or you know, competition from new companies that will replace them. So companies can't rot too much, they have to continue to provide at least a bit of value or get replaced.
ramraj07 3y ago
The reason is more often than not it just cannot be fixed. Only way to fix it is to fundamentally start fresh.
- gmd63 3y ago
  I feel like with the level of surveillance we point at ad targeting, if we just steered it in the right direction it would provide at least some clue in sussing out who is power gaming versus people who are earnestly trying to do good for the team On a personal level I've developed a sense for when someone tends toward these behaviors, like when they downplay the contribution of someone who actually did work while promoting their "direction" which happened outside of recorded history
RGamma 3y ago
The ones that are most fit for power may be the ones to least desire it, in which case they don't make any effort to get there... If one cannot get rid of power concentration (e.g. by subsistence or federation) then democracy's playbook seems best (voting, transparency, checks and balances) or even random selection.
- mlrtime 3y ago
  There is nothing special about the office, it is just a reflection on humans and general socities/governments. We like to pretend it's different and meritocracy has more value, but the same rules of politics are involved (corporate vs government). So, I disagree, deomcracy's playbook will yield the same results as the same actors are playing the game.
  - RGamma 3y ago
    Well, my point being to change the rules of the game such that even if everyone is assumed to greedily (i.e. first order) optimize for their own goals this cannot easily cause the organization to rot. A very simple application of this is the worker's council/Betriebsrat (though this one too can get infected by politics depending on implementation). It's certainly a highly non-trivial issue and details matter a lot...

by gmd63 3y ago

It's wild to me that folks seem to be unable to figure out how to fix rot at large companies when this is such a toxic set of trials for selecting people to put in power

bdw5204 3y ago

Society can't figure out how to stop the most toxic, corrupt and incompetent people from becoming high ranking politicians so it makes perfect sense for the same kind of rot to be endemic at large corporations. Rotten people gravitate towards power and most of those who aren't rotten are cowards who won't do anything to stop them because that'd risk their own careers or their own relationships with people naive enough to fall for the rotten people who are climbing towards the top. The only thing that fixes this is for a critical mass of people to find the courage to stand up to rotten individuals who are powerful or likely to obtain power soon.

Jensson 3y ago
> The only thing that fixes this is for a critical mass of people to find the courage to stand up to rotten individuals who are powerful or likely to obtain power soon. Or you know, competition from new companies that will replace them. So companies can't rot too much, they have to continue to provide at least a bit of value or get replaced.

ramraj07 3y ago

The reason is more often than not it just cannot be fixed. Only way to fix it is to fundamentally start fresh.

gmd63 3y ago
I feel like with the level of surveillance we point at ad targeting, if we just steered it in the right direction it would provide at least some clue in sussing out who is power gaming versus people who are earnestly trying to do good for the team On a personal level I've developed a sense for when someone tends toward these behaviors, like when they downplay the contribution of someone who actually did work while promoting their "direction" which happened outside of recorded history

RGamma 3y ago

The ones that are most fit for power may be the ones to least desire it, in which case they don't make any effort to get there... If one cannot get rid of power concentration (e.g. by subsistence or federation) then democracy's playbook seems best (voting, transparency, checks and balances) or even random selection.

mlrtime 3y ago
There is nothing special about the office, it is just a reflection on humans and general socities/governments. We like to pretend it's different and meritocracy has more value, but the same rules of politics are involved (corporate vs government). So, I disagree, deomcracy's playbook will yield the same results as the same actors are playing the game.
- RGamma 3y ago
  Well, my point being to change the rules of the game such that even if everyone is assumed to greedily (i.e. first order) optimize for their own goals this cannot easily cause the organization to rot. A very simple application of this is the worker's council/Betriebsrat (though this one too can get infected by politics depending on implementation). It's certainly a highly non-trivial issue and details matter a lot...