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Who cares what Epic wants? Their incentives align with mine so I supported them. Apples practices here clearly harm consumers by reducing competition on iOS. It

Who cares what Epic wants? Their incentives align with mine so I supported them. Apples practices here clearly harm consumers by reducing competition on iOS. It is obvious to me that if Epic won iOS would be a better product, at least for me.

nickthegreek 3y ago
Some would argue that Apples practices clearly protect the consumer from malware, privacy issues and scams. It is obvious to me that if Epic won iOS could be a worse product, at least for me.
- amiga386 3y ago
  Exhibit A: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/30/21348130/apple-documents-steve-jobs-email-books-amazon-apps-antitrust-investigation-schiller https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/30/21348130/apple-documents-... > Jobs said, “[i]t’s time for Amazon to decide to use our payment mechanism or bow out [of the App Store],” > Jobs said: “I think this is all pretty simple — iBooks is going to be the only bookstore on iOS devices. We need to hold our heads high. One can read books bought elsewhere, just not buy/rent/subscribe from iOS without paying us, which we acknowledge is prohibitive for many things.” Tell me how this clearly protects the consumer from malware, privacy issues and scams.
  - nickthegreek 3y ago
    Apple pay subscription cancellation ease and refunds protect the consumer. I’m not here to defend all of their practices. I am saying there are very obvious consumer friendly parts of the ecosystem starting with the fact that I don’t need to run tech support on my families tablets and phones. I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. And I just don’t feel like they are going to use a more an open system to the benefit of the consumer. I trust them _a lot_ less than Apple.
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. Where have you looked? I see them complain all the time on Reddit, for example. And Apple actually denies a lot of refunds.
      - malshe 3y ago
        Reddit is one of the most astroturfed websites out there. I wouldn't trust anything I read there.
        lapcat 3y ago
        No worse than here. ;-) But not trusting anything you read is a very convenient way of denying the existence of any complaints. How else would you tell?
        malshe 3y ago
        It all depends on how much one trusts an online forum. Btw, what is your measure for determining astroturfing on HN versus Reddit? I understand astroturfing happens here to some extent but I am not aware of any social media manager who spends money on astroturfing on HN. In contrast, I have heard (second hand) about social media guys paying for Reddit astroturfing.
      - nickthegreek 3y ago
        I have never heard a person complain about this in real life. I hear other issues with Apple but never has anyone espoused the desire for another AppStore. Everyone loves the ability to mange subs in one location. They enjoy the ease of transactions from the AppStore as opposed to entering cc info or logging into other apps. My less tech savvy friends and family feel safe in the iOS ecosystem. They do think there are issues with low quality predatory subscription apps though. I certainly agree with that.
        lapcat 3y ago

nickthegreek 3y ago

Some would argue that Apples practices clearly protect the consumer from malware, privacy issues and scams. It is obvious to me that if Epic won iOS could be a worse product, at least for me.

amiga386 3y ago
Exhibit A: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/30/21348130/apple-documents-steve-jobs-email-books-amazon-apps-antitrust-investigation-schiller https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/30/21348130/apple-documents-... > Jobs said, “[i]t’s time for Amazon to decide to use our payment mechanism or bow out [of the App Store],” > Jobs said: “I think this is all pretty simple — iBooks is going to be the only bookstore on iOS devices. We need to hold our heads high. One can read books bought elsewhere, just not buy/rent/subscribe from iOS without paying us, which we acknowledge is prohibitive for many things.” Tell me how this clearly protects the consumer from malware, privacy issues and scams.
- nickthegreek 3y ago
  Apple pay subscription cancellation ease and refunds protect the consumer. I’m not here to defend all of their practices. I am saying there are very obvious consumer friendly parts of the ecosystem starting with the fact that I don’t need to run tech support on my families tablets and phones. I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. And I just don’t feel like they are going to use a more an open system to the benefit of the consumer. I trust them _a lot_ less than Apple.
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > I barely ever see consumers complain about the ecosystem, mostly companies and developers. Where have you looked? I see them complain all the time on Reddit, for example. And Apple actually denies a lot of refunds.
    - malshe 3y ago
      Reddit is one of the most astroturfed websites out there. I wouldn't trust anything I read there.
      - lapcat 3y ago
        No worse than here. ;-) But not trusting anything you read is a very convenient way of denying the existence of any complaints. How else would you tell?
        malshe 3y ago
        It all depends on how much one trusts an online forum. Btw, what is your measure for determining astroturfing on HN versus Reddit? I understand astroturfing happens here to some extent but I am not aware of any social media manager who spends money on astroturfing on HN. In contrast, I have heard (second hand) about social media guys paying for Reddit astroturfing.
    - nickthegreek 3y ago
      I have never heard a person complain about this in real life. I hear other issues with Apple but never has anyone espoused the desire for another AppStore. Everyone loves the ability to mange subs in one location. They enjoy the ease of transactions from the AppStore as opposed to entering cc info or logging into other apps. My less tech savvy friends and family feel safe in the iOS ecosystem. They do think there are issues with low quality predatory subscription apps though. I certainly agree with that.
      - lapcat 3y ago