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Typical, install instructions are several times more effort in Windows (not to mention Cygwin and having to restart your computer to play nice with VS). Is it n

Typical, install instructions are several times more effort in Windows (not to mention Cygwin and having to restart your computer to play nice with VS). Is it not possible to get this working using MSYS and Mingw32?

danssig 15y ago
Windows is pretty much always going to be a second class citizen once you take a half-step outside the mainstream. I would just try to "get used to it" (i.e. run Linux/Mac).
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  I do. I still lament for others'. There've been more than one occasion where I want to collaborate with my peers that refuse to make the leap and it's always a nightmare.
  - derefr 15y ago
    These days, it seems like POSIX has become just another VM environment, like Smalltalk, Erlang, the JVM or the CLR. Mingw/Cygwin doesn't run *nix programs "on" Windows, really; it just provides them with a really half-assed VM implementation. Why not instead just go all the way and run, say, Ubuntu Server in a headless VMware appliance? If nothing else, it gives your spare cores something to do :)
- pjmlp 15y ago
  What mainstream do you refer to? Surely not the desktop.
  - danssig 15y ago
    Sorry that wasn't clear. Mainstream programming is what I meant (e.g. Haskell).
    - pjmlp 15y ago
      Haskell is an example of mainstream programming?! I am all for more acceptance of languages like Haskell in the industry, but that is as far as it can get from mainstream. Mainstream is C, C++, Java, C#, ...
      - drivebyacct2 15y ago
        I was hoping this one would course-correct itself... (Reading comprehension). "Windows is pretty much always going to be a second class citizen once you take a half-step outside the mainstream." He said... Windows is a pain in the ass if you do anything off the really-well-beaten path (like Haskell). And even then, yes, C/C++ can be a pain in Windows (again, see the linked project).
pjmlp 15y ago
Because developers don't spend the effort to learn how to do things properly on Windows.
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  Can you elaborate? If there is a better way to do this, please do say or link to a pull request for the project...
  - pjmlp 15y ago
    - Provide proper plugins to Programmers Notepad - Make use of a proper IDE like Code::Blocks
    - drivebyacct2 15y ago
      ... I can't tell if you don't understand what the issue is here (from this post and your others), or if you really think that forcing complex workarounds into one-off IDEs is a good way to solve this problem.
      - pjmlp 15y ago
        I am playing a bit devil's advocate, probably with not so much success. The thing is, that each operating system has it own way of doing things, and many people in open source tend to think that everywhere else should be like GNU/Linux. I used to think like that, until I got the opportunity to work with several different types of operating systems, all UNIX flavours, Windows, OS/400, Symbian, VMS and see that there are many ways to do certain things. Here is an example how someone else did a Windows based development environment for DCPU, http://0x10c-devkit.com/ http://0x10c-devkit.com/
- Deestan 15y ago
  Having "spent the effort" over and over again, I fully understand why hobbyists don't bother: The Proper Way on Windows is a largely undocumented minefield strewn with broken glass and lack of a sane package managing system. Personally, I require payment to even bother.

danssig 15y ago

Windows is pretty much always going to be a second class citizen once you take a half-step outside the mainstream. I would just try to "get used to it" (i.e. run Linux/Mac).

drivebyacct2 15y ago
I do. I still lament for others'. There've been more than one occasion where I want to collaborate with my peers that refuse to make the leap and it's always a nightmare.
- derefr 15y ago
  These days, it seems like POSIX has become just another VM environment, like Smalltalk, Erlang, the JVM or the CLR. Mingw/Cygwin doesn't run *nix programs "on" Windows, really; it just provides them with a really half-assed VM implementation. Why not instead just go all the way and run, say, Ubuntu Server in a headless VMware appliance? If nothing else, it gives your spare cores something to do :)
pjmlp 15y ago
What mainstream do you refer to? Surely not the desktop.
- danssig 15y ago
  Sorry that wasn't clear. Mainstream programming is what I meant (e.g. Haskell).
  - pjmlp 15y ago
    Haskell is an example of mainstream programming?! I am all for more acceptance of languages like Haskell in the industry, but that is as far as it can get from mainstream. Mainstream is C, C++, Java, C#, ...
    - drivebyacct2 15y ago
      I was hoping this one would course-correct itself... (Reading comprehension). "Windows is pretty much always going to be a second class citizen once you take a half-step outside the mainstream." He said... Windows is a pain in the ass if you do anything off the really-well-beaten path (like Haskell). And even then, yes, C/C++ can be a pain in Windows (again, see the linked project).

pjmlp 15y ago

Because developers don't spend the effort to learn how to do things properly on Windows.

drivebyacct2 15y ago
Can you elaborate? If there is a better way to do this, please do say or link to a pull request for the project...
- pjmlp 15y ago
  - Provide proper plugins to Programmers Notepad - Make use of a proper IDE like Code::Blocks
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    ... I can't tell if you don't understand what the issue is here (from this post and your others), or if you really think that forcing complex workarounds into one-off IDEs is a good way to solve this problem.
    - pjmlp 15y ago
      I am playing a bit devil's advocate, probably with not so much success. The thing is, that each operating system has it own way of doing things, and many people in open source tend to think that everywhere else should be like GNU/Linux. I used to think like that, until I got the opportunity to work with several different types of operating systems, all UNIX flavours, Windows, OS/400, Symbian, VMS and see that there are many ways to do certain things. Here is an example how someone else did a Windows based development environment for DCPU, http://0x10c-devkit.com/ http://0x10c-devkit.com/
Deestan 15y ago
Having "spent the effort" over and over again, I fully understand why hobbyists don't bother: The Proper Way on Windows is a largely undocumented minefield strewn with broken glass and lack of a sane package managing system. Personally, I require payment to even bother.