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I didn't experience this, but I was at dinner with someone who had recently emigrated from Russia, so I decided to ask, "What is it about the education systems
by dwrodri 3y ago
I didn't experience this, but I was at dinner with someone who had recently emigrated from Russia, so I decided to ask, "What is it about the education systems in formerly Soviet domains that created such a strong passion for computing?" He answered in two parts:
1. Scholars who might've considered studying literature and philisophy might have a hard time competing on the global stage, as the Soviet state didn't take kindly to the idea of promoting anything that could be perceived as anti-Soviet ideals, even if it's for the sake of an academic exercise. Not that the Soviet Union was alone in this practice, but this practice in particular affected their academic community to the extent that many who might've considered literature or philosophy changed their minds.
2. Trade restrictions between the 50s and 60s with large portions of the West created a large demand for semiconductor products on behalf of the state, as the USSR understood the strategic importance of this technology early on. While trade restrictions were gradually relaxed in the decades leading up to Perestroika, the domestic industry for computer products had been established, similar to China's own semiconductor industry and Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms which opened the country to global trade.
This is mostly just the verbal account of one person followed by my own personal research, so this is by no means an authoritative take. If there are others with more knowledge (acquired through research or lived experience) I'd love to hear it, as my knowledge of the history of computing has a Soviet-sized hole in it.
- nextos 3y ago> If there are others with more knowledge (acquired through research or lived experience) I'd love to hear it, as my knowledge of the history of computing has a Soviet-sized hole in it. The famous book Mathematics, its Content, Methods, and Meaning by Alexandrov, Kolmogorov, et al. has two chapters on computing, which is interesting both to take a sneak peak into Soviet-era techniques, as well as to understand the importance Kolmogorov and friends gave to the topic.
- lupire 3y agoWhat educated industrial society didn't have a passion for computing?
- dwrodri 3y agoI guess my language in the original comment didn't really convey the full context of the discussion. My use of the phrase "passion" was referring to what appeared to be the observed success of these countries in the fields of mathematics, statistics, and computer science I thought were disproportionate to other measures of human developent. For example, the OECD data indicates that Hungary invests a lesser proportion of its budget into education compared to other countries mentioned in the article, or even other OECD countries[1]. However, Hungary is clearly established itself as a creator of serious mathematical talent based on the IMO stats shared by the author of the post (even thought the math skills used to win gold at the IMO are very different from what's needed to advance the field as a whole[2]). At a very superficial level, the question is akin to, "Why does Argentina have such a successful national soccer team, when there are other countries with a strong cultural link to soccer and much more capable of pouring money into building a good team?". There is clearly some nuance I was missing when diving into this question but, I don't know what I don't know. I started by asking the question to learn more. 1: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/7688ce27-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/7688ce27-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/7688ce27-en/index.html?i... 2: https://x.com/dwarkesh_sp/status/1712221099344458092 https://x.com/dwarkesh_sp/status/1712221099344458092
- julianeon 3y agoEastern Europe in general has a strong math & science culture. It operates on a lot of levels and is hard to summarize, but it predates the 50’s for sure.
- paulpauper 3y agoIn America it's the opposite direction post-Apollo program . Outside of Silicon Valley at least.
- lynguist 3y agoHow so? There were no Eulers in Eastern Europe except for Russia, which had a prestigious science academy. No Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, etc. had that.
- nomemory 3y agoWell, for Hungary, you have John von Neumann and Eugene Wigner, who both finished an Elite School in Budapest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasori_Gimn%C3%A1zium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasori_Gimn%C3%A1zium. And you also have Erdos. Of course, you might say they were Jewish, but they are the product of the Hungarian School of Mathematics.
- rvba 3y agoDoes Rubik count as well? Not a mathmatician, but everybody knows him for a reason.
- rvba 3y agoUlam, Banach? Other people who made the atomic bomb? Often polish-jewish https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_mathematicians https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_mathematician... (on a side note, the table should be reworked with sortable dates and names - last name perhaps first but Im not sure how to do it)
- dan-robertson 3y agoThere were no Eulers anywhere except Switzerland (later Russia), though I guess there was a Gauss in Germany, so I think that’s a slightly poor example. A pretty random list of polish mathematicians you may have heard of: - Copernicus - Marie Curie - Banach and Tarski I think it’s worth noting that the history of the modern borders and what happened inside them is more complicated than that of (say) Switzerland so, for example, someone may have come from what is now considered Poland but be seen as a Prussian or Russian scientist based on where the political entity that was around when they were working. I think it’s reasonable to say that the math & science culture goes back at least as far as when socialist-style education systems were being set up.