4 ms·

I am curious where people cannot provide a healthy and stable environment. I grew up poor, somewhat stable. My children are going to be growing up in a stable

I am curious where people cannot provide a healthy and stable environment. I grew up poor, somewhat stable. My children are going to be growing up in a stable and healthy environment because of my choices. This is course has a cost. The wife doesn't have a full time job. Income is limited to one earner. Vacations aren't as extravagant. I am in the middle of becoming a foster family. Loads more sacrifices and paperwork. The families that lose their children are really screwed up. There's neglect, abuse, and no blood related that are available to help. The State is not any better at parenting because their interest doesn't align with the child's best interest. The State essentially contracts out parenting. The problem is parenting is essentially its own religion. Naturally that means the State will be in conflict with the Parenting. Foster children are protected by the State so disciplining methods aren't always accepted. A child of any age without effective discipline will be subject to natural consequences which are often more severe that a loving parent with patience, grace, understanding, and attention to desired outcome.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
> Foster children are protected by the State so disciplining methods aren't always accepted. Curious what effective methods the state considers unacceptable?
- pizzafeelsright 3y ago
  Taking away cell phones, taking off doors, physical punishment are a few. I don't agree with them all of these myself but unchecked behavior without corrective action leads to more outbursts and potentially violent reactions. If you've got an eight year old that has a cell phone because the birth mother gave them one you cannot take it away. Leverage allows for better negotiating.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    yup, taking away the computer from my kids (they have no phones) until they clean up their room works for a 6 year old and a 12 year old. there should be a law that mobile phones for children should not be allowed without parental/guardian guidance and supervision. which would give foster parents the right to control that.
    - pizzafeelsright 3y ago
      I doubt more law is the solution. Aligned incentives with effective consequences has done me well.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        of course. i was only talking about preventing or overriding rules that don't allow foster parents to take away a childs phone. for some issues like this appropriate laws are helpful, for others more flexibility is needed.
underlipton 3y ago
Spitballin': I imagine that chaos in the parents' own lives is a major factor. The nature of labor in the US makes employment, for certain classes of workers, highly unstable. The nature of housing markets and law makes housing, for certain classes of workers, highly unstable. The nature of health care (including addiction care) increases vulnerability in mental and physical health. The nature of transportation infrastructure and services make many aspects of life unnecessarily precarious. On and on. "The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members," isn't a platitude, it's a wake-up call, to pay attention to how bad things can get. If you're going to lose the health insurance that covers your asthmatic kid, because you're about to lose your job, because you can't afford to fix your (planned obsolescent) broken-down car, because you spent your fix fund on rent that increased 20% year-over-year... well, then, it's going to be difficult to be a good parent. I fully expect the "personal responsibility" people to go in on me.
- pizzafeelsright 3y ago
  I wouldn't go too aggressive but lemme ask: despite a game stacked against someone would the better path be one of drug abuse, taking on debt, and living in a manner that doesn't take into account that rainy days are ahead or perhaps living in a smaller dwelling, with less material obligations, and setting education above entertainment
  - harimau777 3y ago
    I'm not sure that your question reflects the reality of how mental health works. People often don't choose in the conventional sense to abuse drugs, they start using drugs in an attempt to manage the unmanageable problems in their lives. Similarly, prioritizing entertainment over education may be what allows someone to alleviate their depression enough to be able to go to work.
    - pizzafeelsright 3y ago
      I disagree with both conclusions. I would say it is more accurate, in my experience, that people partake of drugs in an effort to escape manageable problems. Likewise, provided enough productive actions and positive effort, the depression would be replaced with challenges that would lead to more peace.
harimau777 3y ago
Some parents choose not to provide a healthy and stable environment. It's not uncommon for LGBTQ kids to simply be disowned and kicked out.

paulryanrogers 3y ago

> Foster children are protected by the State so disciplining methods aren't always accepted. Curious what effective methods the state considers unacceptable?

pizzafeelsright 3y ago
Taking away cell phones, taking off doors, physical punishment are a few. I don't agree with them all of these myself but unchecked behavior without corrective action leads to more outbursts and potentially violent reactions. If you've got an eight year old that has a cell phone because the birth mother gave them one you cannot take it away. Leverage allows for better negotiating.
- em-bee 3y ago
  yup, taking away the computer from my kids (they have no phones) until they clean up their room works for a 6 year old and a 12 year old. there should be a law that mobile phones for children should not be allowed without parental/guardian guidance and supervision. which would give foster parents the right to control that.
  - pizzafeelsright 3y ago
    I doubt more law is the solution. Aligned incentives with effective consequences has done me well.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      of course. i was only talking about preventing or overriding rules that don't allow foster parents to take away a childs phone. for some issues like this appropriate laws are helpful, for others more flexibility is needed.

underlipton 3y ago

Spitballin': I imagine that chaos in the parents' own lives is a major factor. The nature of labor in the US makes employment, for certain classes of workers, highly unstable. The nature of housing markets and law makes housing, for certain classes of workers, highly unstable. The nature of health care (including addiction care) increases vulnerability in mental and physical health. The nature of transportation infrastructure and services make many aspects of life unnecessarily precarious. On and on. "The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members," isn't a platitude, it's a wake-up call, to pay attention to how bad things can get. If you're going to lose the health insurance that covers your asthmatic kid, because you're about to lose your job, because you can't afford to fix your (planned obsolescent) broken-down car, because you spent your fix fund on rent that increased 20% year-over-year... well, then, it's going to be difficult to be a good parent. I fully expect the "personal responsibility" people to go in on me.

pizzafeelsright 3y ago
I wouldn't go too aggressive but lemme ask: despite a game stacked against someone would the better path be one of drug abuse, taking on debt, and living in a manner that doesn't take into account that rainy days are ahead or perhaps living in a smaller dwelling, with less material obligations, and setting education above entertainment
- harimau777 3y ago
  I'm not sure that your question reflects the reality of how mental health works. People often don't choose in the conventional sense to abuse drugs, they start using drugs in an attempt to manage the unmanageable problems in their lives. Similarly, prioritizing entertainment over education may be what allows someone to alleviate their depression enough to be able to go to work.
  - pizzafeelsright 3y ago
    I disagree with both conclusions. I would say it is more accurate, in my experience, that people partake of drugs in an effort to escape manageable problems. Likewise, provided enough productive actions and positive effort, the depression would be replaced with challenges that would lead to more peace.

harimau777 3y ago

Some parents choose not to provide a healthy and stable environment. It's not uncommon for LGBTQ kids to simply be disowned and kicked out.