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OK, I’ll take the question at face value: programmers build systems on computers that interface with the real world and hence real users. If you want to build s

OK, I’ll take the question at face value: programmers build systems on computers that interface with the real world and hence real users. If you want to build systems that work well for users then you need to understand the problems those users have. Having a wide spread of life experience in the industry will lead to a greater chance that a greater spread of users will have their problems solved by digital systems.

globular-toast 3y ago
Sounds contrived to me but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Is there any evidence that women have more trouble with computer programs or are less well served compared to men? Even if so, wouldn't that require more female product owners etc rather than more programmers?
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Things do come up sometimes but it's a question of do you need exact 50:50 representation or is it enough to ensure there's a voice for each sex. danah boyd pointed out to VR researchers she was working with that their product was "sexist" because it made assumptions about vision that were far more true for males than females. But she used the word sexist in a narrow way to just point out that vision fact, not to make a moral judgement or imply any intention. It's worth noting that she was able to point this out on her own. She didn't need the team she was working with to be 50% female for her to have this insight and share it with everyone else.
  - doublerebel 3y ago
    VR/AR/XR is a very good example. Meta’s headsets and most 3rd party straps still default to a top strap that runs along the center of the head front to back. For any woman that wears their hair in a ponytail or bun this is a no-go. That design makes it really hard to demo product to 50+% of the population. I always seek out replacement straps that have an extra front strap instead of a center strap for this reason. And still very few men who work in the industry are aware of this despite that I’ve been working in AR/VR for a decade. This might seem like a product failure, but in a software company there are far more programmers than product managers. It would only take a couple females writing software for the headset all day to point out how uncomfortable it is.
    - globular-toast 3y ago
      Sorry but a) men can wear pony tails and b) women don't have to wear their hair in pony tails. Are motorcycle helmets and other safety gear bad because they don't allow pony tails? Should they compromise on the strap design just to allow one particular hairstyle? Female specific stuff is a thing and yeah you definitely need to design clothing for women (with several different shapes), but your argument is stretching and just looking for a problem to justify the wanting more female programmer thing.
  - bookofjoe 3y ago
    [flagged]
Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Business analyst, project manager, product manager, UI/UX designer... those are all roles that do what you're describing. Doesn't hurt of the programmers to have a hand in things too but usability and functionality really aren't their responsibility on most projects beyond the trivial. If any of those roles are mainly one sex, then that might be an issue.

globular-toast 3y ago

Sounds contrived to me but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Is there any evidence that women have more trouble with computer programs or are less well served compared to men? Even if so, wouldn't that require more female product owners etc rather than more programmers?

Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Things do come up sometimes but it's a question of do you need exact 50:50 representation or is it enough to ensure there's a voice for each sex. danah boyd pointed out to VR researchers she was working with that their product was "sexist" because it made assumptions about vision that were far more true for males than females. But she used the word sexist in a narrow way to just point out that vision fact, not to make a moral judgement or imply any intention. It's worth noting that she was able to point this out on her own. She didn't need the team she was working with to be 50% female for her to have this insight and share it with everyone else.
- doublerebel 3y ago
  VR/AR/XR is a very good example. Meta’s headsets and most 3rd party straps still default to a top strap that runs along the center of the head front to back. For any woman that wears their hair in a ponytail or bun this is a no-go. That design makes it really hard to demo product to 50+% of the population. I always seek out replacement straps that have an extra front strap instead of a center strap for this reason. And still very few men who work in the industry are aware of this despite that I’ve been working in AR/VR for a decade. This might seem like a product failure, but in a software company there are far more programmers than product managers. It would only take a couple females writing software for the headset all day to point out how uncomfortable it is.
  - globular-toast 3y ago
    Sorry but a) men can wear pony tails and b) women don't have to wear their hair in pony tails. Are motorcycle helmets and other safety gear bad because they don't allow pony tails? Should they compromise on the strap design just to allow one particular hairstyle? Female specific stuff is a thing and yeah you definitely need to design clothing for women (with several different shapes), but your argument is stretching and just looking for a problem to justify the wanting more female programmer thing.
- bookofjoe 3y ago
  [flagged]

Mountain_Skies 3y ago

Business analyst, project manager, product manager, UI/UX designer... those are all roles that do what you're describing. Doesn't hurt of the programmers to have a hand in things too but usability and functionality really aren't their responsibility on most projects beyond the trivial. If any of those roles are mainly one sex, then that might be an issue.