5 ms·

Car-centric design reduces freedom, because it requires an expensive car in order to go anywhere. Nothing says freedom like a $900/month car payment in order to

Car-centric design reduces freedom, because it requires an expensive car in order to go anywhere. Nothing says freedom like a $900/month car payment in order to get to work and buy groceries![0] Bulk stores like Costco are only necessary because people live in such sprawling communities. In places where you live a short walk from a grocery store, you can practice just-in-time logistics, and buy whatever you need as soon as you need it. It's a lot cheaper, both in economic and environmental terms, to build cities where people don't need to drive for their daily needs. [0] https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/08/annual-cost-of-new-car-ownership-crosses-10k-mark/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2022/08/annual-cost-of-new-car-owne...

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
>requires an expensive car in order to go anywhere. ... the prevalence of 2000s Nissan Altimas on the road suggests that a cheap car works pretty well for many people.
- dublinben 3y ago
  There's no such thing as a "cheap" car when you compare it to the cost of walking or cycling. You could buy a new pair of shoes and a bike every month for the cost of just insuring and fueling an average car. Car-centric design is a tax on all of us. It's just less burdensome for some than it is for others.
  - pandaman 3y ago
    If your time is worth $0 then walking is cheaper, even at the federal minimum wage it's $1.80-2.40 per mile.
TexanFeller 3y ago
Rather hyperbolic. No one needs to pay $1000/mo for a basic reliable car, not even including gas and insurance.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Regardless of the price, it limits access to many necessities only to people able to drive. All children are unable to drive, and anyone who doesn't die young will end their life disabled and unable to drive for the last several-to-many years of it. There's no reason to limit and isolate people this way. It's certainly not "freedom."
FredPret 3y ago
Weird strawman. 1000/month buys you a nice new car. You can buy a second-hand one outright for 5k. I've lived in both walk-centric and car-centric modalities. It's a lot cheaper to do a costco trip every two weeks in North America than to walk to Co-op or Waitrose or whatever and buy a single, individually-wrapped-in-plastic apple at a time.
- eesmith 3y ago
  On the topic of strawman, surely the better comparison would be Tesco home-delivery of the bulk of your biweekly shopping. While that costs more than buying it yourself, how much is your time worth? Also, Waitrose is upmarket, so that's more like a Whole Foods apple than a Costco one.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    I save a ton of time buying in bulk. It’s the main reason I do it; I’m just delighted I also save money. I also get much better quality meat, fruit, and vegetables from Costco than Waitrose. So this is a total no-brainer for me. The only downside for some is you need more upfront money to shop in bulk, even if it works out to be cheaper.
    - eesmith 3y ago
      You can get the cost savings in a less car-centric world using delivery. Costco has home grocery delivery too. https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/9455 https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/answer_view/a... It costs more that on the shelf because you are paying for someone to do work for you. Again, how much is your time worth? Yes, a lot of people love to pick out their own food themselves, and buy in bulk only every couple of weeks, and take it home in their own vehicle. You are one of them, but certainly not everyone is like you. I am not. The idea of a less car-centric world is to give more options that don't require a car, not to prevent you from using a car. If the savings in going to Costco is big enough to justify having a car, then one alternative option is to join a car sharing group. Every two weeks, book a vehicle for your Costco run. In effect you're only paying for a day's worth of car ownership rather than 14 days, where most of time the car does nothing.
erik_seaberg 3y ago
How much food and water do you keep at home? Are you prepared for an emergency? Needing extra food every day sounds risky, as well as not being a good use of time.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago

>requires an expensive car in order to go anywhere. ... the prevalence of 2000s Nissan Altimas on the road suggests that a cheap car works pretty well for many people.

dublinben 3y ago
There's no such thing as a "cheap" car when you compare it to the cost of walking or cycling. You could buy a new pair of shoes and a bike every month for the cost of just insuring and fueling an average car. Car-centric design is a tax on all of us. It's just less burdensome for some than it is for others.
- pandaman 3y ago
  If your time is worth $0 then walking is cheaper, even at the federal minimum wage it's $1.80-2.40 per mile.

TexanFeller 3y ago

Rather hyperbolic. No one needs to pay $1000/mo for a basic reliable car, not even including gas and insurance.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Regardless of the price, it limits access to many necessities only to people able to drive. All children are unable to drive, and anyone who doesn't die young will end their life disabled and unable to drive for the last several-to-many years of it. There's no reason to limit and isolate people this way. It's certainly not "freedom."

FredPret 3y ago

Weird strawman. 1000/month buys you a nice new car. You can buy a second-hand one outright for 5k. I've lived in both walk-centric and car-centric modalities. It's a lot cheaper to do a costco trip every two weeks in North America than to walk to Co-op or Waitrose or whatever and buy a single, individually-wrapped-in-plastic apple at a time.

eesmith 3y ago
On the topic of strawman, surely the better comparison would be Tesco home-delivery of the bulk of your biweekly shopping. While that costs more than buying it yourself, how much is your time worth? Also, Waitrose is upmarket, so that's more like a Whole Foods apple than a Costco one.
- FredPret 3y ago
  I save a ton of time buying in bulk. It’s the main reason I do it; I’m just delighted I also save money. I also get much better quality meat, fruit, and vegetables from Costco than Waitrose. So this is a total no-brainer for me. The only downside for some is you need more upfront money to shop in bulk, even if it works out to be cheaper.
  - eesmith 3y ago
    You can get the cost savings in a less car-centric world using delivery. Costco has home grocery delivery too. https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/9455 https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/answer_view/a... It costs more that on the shelf because you are paying for someone to do work for you. Again, how much is your time worth? Yes, a lot of people love to pick out their own food themselves, and buy in bulk only every couple of weeks, and take it home in their own vehicle. You are one of them, but certainly not everyone is like you. I am not. The idea of a less car-centric world is to give more options that don't require a car, not to prevent you from using a car. If the savings in going to Costco is big enough to justify having a car, then one alternative option is to join a car sharing group. Every two weeks, book a vehicle for your Costco run. In effect you're only paying for a day's worth of car ownership rather than 14 days, where most of time the car does nothing.

erik_seaberg 3y ago

How much food and water do you keep at home? Are you prepared for an emergency? Needing extra food every day sounds risky, as well as not being a good use of time.