4 ms·

I don't agree in general, but I wonder why you blame it on sexualization of culture and the effect of that on women instead of hyper-masculization/glorification

I don't agree in general, but I wonder why you blame it on sexualization of culture and the effect of that on women instead of hyper-masculization/glorification of scams/violence in culture and the effect of that on men? All those "risk-taking macho [men]" you refer to could be easily blamed on a mass media system that glorifies such behavior, yet you focus your comment on sexualization and women, who seem to be less of the principal actors in your story compared to the men taking risks and leaving people in the lurch.

bluetomcat 3y ago
Teenage girls in particular fall prey to that mass conditioning. In recent years, platforms like TikTok incentivise their early sexualisation. Before that it was teen pop and MTV videos. You just don’t see a 20-year-old woman imagining herself as a housewife and cooking meals anymore. Her biggest asset is her body and she uses it as a tool to manipulate men.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Teenage girls in particular fall prey to that mass conditioning. Bold of you to assume only teenage girls do. I know guys in their late 20s to early 30s (with university degrees!) who follow and agree with the likes of Andrew Tate or other such scammer nutjobs of the manosphere. From what I saw, my take is that such people are like that due to lacking support. They lack a supporting family unit(poor relationship with their parents), they lack a caring social group(isolated, introverts, very few friends), they lack a caring mentor to show them the way on how to get out of a rut and improve their situation, so end up pray to easy manipulation of these fake gurus who help them fill that void.
- dawatchusay 3y ago
  Evidence please
- mxkopy 3y ago
  These things are not mutually exclusive
- klooney 3y ago
  > You just don’t see a 20-year-old woman imagining herself as a housewife and cooking meals anymore Au contraire, this is now a popular content vertical/subculture- "tradwife" is the keyword you need to dig this stuff up.
greenhexagon 3y ago
Curious how different our experiences of "culture" can be. I'm an American in my 40s. I've never seen "glorification of scams" in any mainstream culture and can't really think of any subculture where that would be the case... maybe used car sales, crypto or drug dealers or something? I've also never seen any sort of "hyper-masculization" shown in a positive light in mainstream culture. I've always been pressured by society to present as less masculine and it's common to see masculinity referred to as as "toxic" and equated with negative traits or externalities. In fact, it's an entirely one-sided debate at this point. Suggesting any positive aspect of masculinity is considered sexist, misogynistic and unacceptable among the people who's opinions carry power in society. Negative aspects of masculinity are of course strongly encouraged, reinforced and amplified.
- the_gastropod 3y ago
  > I'm an American in my 40s. I've never seen "glorification of scams" in any mainstream culture Some very popular movies that come to mind (Some of these may not be intended to be glorifying scams, but to many unsophisticated viewers, they absolutely are): - The Social Network - The Wolf of Wall Street - Uncut Gems - The Godfather - Scarface - Ocean's Eleven (and Twelve and Thirteen) - Emily the Criminal - I Care a Lot - Nine Queens - Punch-Drunk Love > I've also never seen any sort of "hyper-masculization" shown in a positive light in mainstream culture More movies! - The Godfather (again) - Pulp Fiction - Fight Club - American History X - Gangster Squad - Django Unchained - Expendables - Every Fast and Furious movie - (Nearly?) Every Arnold Schwarzenegger movie > it's common to see masculinity referred to as as "toxic" and equated with negative traits or externalities I think this is (usually?) a misunderstanding. People refer to toxic masculinity, a set of problematic behaviors some men exhibit as part of attempting to appear "manly" that includes traits such as: homophobia, glorifying unhealthy habits (e.g., drinking like a man, don't cry like a woman, mental health issues depicted as "weakness", etc.) They're not referring to masculinity, itself, as being toxic.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    > People refer to toxic masculinity, a set of problematic behaviors some men exhibit as part of attempting to appear "manly" that includes traits such as: homophobia, glorifying unhealthy habits (e.g., drinking like a man, don't cry like a woman, mental health issues depicted as "weakness", etc.) They're not referring to masculinity, itself, as being toxic. Yes, toxic masculinity ≠ masculinity. Broadly speaking, toxic masculinity has to do with behaviors that are deleterious to the one behaving that way, others, or both. Nobody is going to claim for example that a man’s efforts to be a warm, supportive father who strives to be his family’s rock (a pretty traditional male archetype) are toxic.

bluetomcat 3y ago

Teenage girls in particular fall prey to that mass conditioning. In recent years, platforms like TikTok incentivise their early sexualisation. Before that it was teen pop and MTV videos. You just don’t see a 20-year-old woman imagining herself as a housewife and cooking meals anymore. Her biggest asset is her body and she uses it as a tool to manipulate men.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Teenage girls in particular fall prey to that mass conditioning. Bold of you to assume only teenage girls do. I know guys in their late 20s to early 30s (with university degrees!) who follow and agree with the likes of Andrew Tate or other such scammer nutjobs of the manosphere. From what I saw, my take is that such people are like that due to lacking support. They lack a supporting family unit(poor relationship with their parents), they lack a caring social group(isolated, introverts, very few friends), they lack a caring mentor to show them the way on how to get out of a rut and improve their situation, so end up pray to easy manipulation of these fake gurus who help them fill that void.
dawatchusay 3y ago
Evidence please
mxkopy 3y ago
These things are not mutually exclusive
klooney 3y ago
> You just don’t see a 20-year-old woman imagining herself as a housewife and cooking meals anymore Au contraire, this is now a popular content vertical/subculture- "tradwife" is the keyword you need to dig this stuff up.

greenhexagon 3y ago

Curious how different our experiences of "culture" can be. I'm an American in my 40s. I've never seen "glorification of scams" in any mainstream culture and can't really think of any subculture where that would be the case... maybe used car sales, crypto or drug dealers or something? I've also never seen any sort of "hyper-masculization" shown in a positive light in mainstream culture. I've always been pressured by society to present as less masculine and it's common to see masculinity referred to as as "toxic" and equated with negative traits or externalities. In fact, it's an entirely one-sided debate at this point. Suggesting any positive aspect of masculinity is considered sexist, misogynistic and unacceptable among the people who's opinions carry power in society. Negative aspects of masculinity are of course strongly encouraged, reinforced and amplified.

the_gastropod 3y ago
> I'm an American in my 40s. I've never seen "glorification of scams" in any mainstream culture Some very popular movies that come to mind (Some of these may not be intended to be glorifying scams, but to many unsophisticated viewers, they absolutely are): - The Social Network - The Wolf of Wall Street - Uncut Gems - The Godfather - Scarface - Ocean's Eleven (and Twelve and Thirteen) - Emily the Criminal - I Care a Lot - Nine Queens - Punch-Drunk Love > I've also never seen any sort of "hyper-masculization" shown in a positive light in mainstream culture More movies! - The Godfather (again) - Pulp Fiction - Fight Club - American History X - Gangster Squad - Django Unchained - Expendables - Every Fast and Furious movie - (Nearly?) Every Arnold Schwarzenegger movie > it's common to see masculinity referred to as as "toxic" and equated with negative traits or externalities I think this is (usually?) a misunderstanding. People refer to toxic masculinity, a set of problematic behaviors some men exhibit as part of attempting to appear "manly" that includes traits such as: homophobia, glorifying unhealthy habits (e.g., drinking like a man, don't cry like a woman, mental health issues depicted as "weakness", etc.) They're not referring to masculinity, itself, as being toxic.
- jwells89 3y ago
  > People refer to toxic masculinity, a set of problematic behaviors some men exhibit as part of attempting to appear "manly" that includes traits such as: homophobia, glorifying unhealthy habits (e.g., drinking like a man, don't cry like a woman, mental health issues depicted as "weakness", etc.) They're not referring to masculinity, itself, as being toxic. Yes, toxic masculinity ≠ masculinity. Broadly speaking, toxic masculinity has to do with behaviors that are deleterious to the one behaving that way, others, or both. Nobody is going to claim for example that a man’s efforts to be a warm, supportive father who strives to be his family’s rock (a pretty traditional male archetype) are toxic.