4 ms·

Lots of people mocking the “God commanded me to do X” but if you’re familiar with evangelical Christian culture, this line gets used to justify all sorts of beh

Lots of people mocking the “God commanded me to do X” but if you’re familiar with evangelical Christian culture, this line gets used to justify all sorts of behavior and life decisions that might go against what one would traditionally expect a devout Christian to avoid. Obviously fraud and financial crimes are an extreme version of this, but it’s a line I’ve heard to justify all sorts of legal albeit self-destructive behavior. “I know I should be saving money for a house but god spoke to me and I spent the downpayment on <fancy car that’ll get repo’d in a year>”

test77777g 3y ago
I’m an atheist and frequent places where men have anonymous gay sex and the majority of the men are “devout” Christians for me it’s a kink, I don’t feel a lot of guilt, and neither do they, lies are their choice and it shows.
- retrac 3y ago
  > I don’t feel a lot of guilt, and neither do they I can tell you haven't tried to date such guys. They may not feel enough guilt to keep them from engaging in casual sex, but many of them absolutely feel guilt. Indeed, sometimes it's a complex of immovable guilt and shame, in the style of classic Freud, with the entire panoply of coping mechanisms deployed to deal with the dissonance (projection, affect isolation, displacement, dissociation, reaction formation, etc.)
- ametrau 3y ago
  This is how we incubate various diseases. Monkey pox being a good example (but it’s origin story doesn’t get mentioned because it goes against the current zeitgeist).
LNSY 3y ago
It's been used to justify all sorts of child abuse, also. Going back to Abraham's abuse of his son Isaac and Lot and his Daughters.
batch12 3y ago
Christianity isn't the only religion abused by flawed people to do bad things. Its more of a reflection of the people involved and not the religion. It's sad.
- kevingadd 3y ago
  Modern american evangelical christianity suffers from a particular moral rot that isn't unique to it but is also not common to other branches of the faith. Specifically, there's a firm conviction that once you're saved you remain saved, and you can find lots of people who behave as if as a result, nothing they do really matters. They can be selfish, they can be rude, they can be cruel, they can be unfaithful, and it's all fine in the end because they're still safe. They'll tell you of course that everyone should do their best, and they might even tell you that they're doing their best, but the basic tenets of their specific flavor of faith are essentially that Nothing Really Matters. The most extreme evangelical/nondenominational Christians take this especially far like the pastor in the article, and I feel bad for people of faith who have to share the same label with them. (for context, I worked in evangelical christian ministry for multiple years when I was younger)
  - bloomingeek 3y ago
    Sadly, I agree. The "always saved" and "faith without fear" motto's give most the idea that humility doesn't matter anymore. Pastor's fill them up with their being special and elect, which is in the heavenly realm, not here on earth. The concept of servant-believers, for most, isn't even on their radar. 2015 was a sort of tipping point, IMO, that has caused a sort of paradigm shift in Christianity. (sorry, a little vague, but I'm still trying to understand all the changes.) My hope is that all Christianity will go back to basic tenets of faith, biblically taught.
    - chrismorgan 3y ago
      > biblically taught And there’s the key. If only people would read the Bible. If they would read even just Philippians 3:12 or Hebrews 10:26 or any of a number of other passages, they would see at once what heresy “once saved, always saved” is. But no, Christianity is too often just a club. Most people have no actual interest in the Bible. God has ever worked with minorities and remnants. Christianity strongly Bible-based will always be small by comparison. I rather like the way Dickens framed it in A Christmas Carol: > “There are some upon this earth of yours,” returned the Spirit, “who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us, and all our kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us.”
jjulius 3y ago
>... but if you're familiar with evangelical Christian culture, this line gets used to justify all sorts of behavior and life decisions that might go against what one would traditionally expect a devour Christian to avoid. Religion being used that way isn't limited to evangelicals nor Christianity. In fact, it's basically the reason people are mocking the phrase.
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  I'd rather say that such conduct is mostly confined to evangelicals. Mainstream Christianity teaches that prophecy ceased with Maleachi, and form then onwards we have only the traditions of the Church to go by. That would include a sober ("chaste") lifestyle.
  - slavboj 3y ago
    Literally every Christian denomination believes in communication from God, whether that counts as "prophecy" or not.
    - HarryHirsch 3y ago
      Well, yes, Marian apparitions are a thing, but the Virgin isn't going to tell anyone to go out and buy a Porsche.
      - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        The way this understanding is generally formulated is that "public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle", but I have not actually encountered this as a formally defined teaching or doctrine.
        fellowniusmonk 3y ago
        Cessationism. It's been a big part of the modernistic bent of the dominant Calvinistic protestant denominations. It was also drove the focus on literacy and certainly influenced the trend towards academic and textual rigor. Widely abandoned in the U.S. only quite recently by low and high protestant calvanistic conservative groups alike. Pentecostal and charismatic groups have been around obviously but weren't taken too seriously and were even warned against by dominant evangelicalism, but that has relatively recently changed in conservative Presbyterian circles and influential groups in baptist circles like Sovereign Grace Churches (though they aren't baptist, they've become heavily culturally entwined via southern seminary and other places). This has basically reintroduced miracles and promoted an embrace of magical thinking in laity's daily life that was long absent from those bookish, stuffy, severe, and practical protestants.
AniseAbyss 3y ago
[dead]

test77777g 3y ago

I’m an atheist and frequent places where men have anonymous gay sex and the majority of the men are “devout” Christians for me it’s a kink, I don’t feel a lot of guilt, and neither do they, lies are their choice and it shows.

retrac 3y ago
> I don’t feel a lot of guilt, and neither do they I can tell you haven't tried to date such guys. They may not feel enough guilt to keep them from engaging in casual sex, but many of them absolutely feel guilt. Indeed, sometimes it's a complex of immovable guilt and shame, in the style of classic Freud, with the entire panoply of coping mechanisms deployed to deal with the dissonance (projection, affect isolation, displacement, dissociation, reaction formation, etc.)
ametrau 3y ago
This is how we incubate various diseases. Monkey pox being a good example (but it’s origin story doesn’t get mentioned because it goes against the current zeitgeist).

LNSY 3y ago

It's been used to justify all sorts of child abuse, also. Going back to Abraham's abuse of his son Isaac and Lot and his Daughters.

batch12 3y ago

Christianity isn't the only religion abused by flawed people to do bad things. Its more of a reflection of the people involved and not the religion. It's sad.

kevingadd 3y ago
Modern american evangelical christianity suffers from a particular moral rot that isn't unique to it but is also not common to other branches of the faith. Specifically, there's a firm conviction that once you're saved you remain saved, and you can find lots of people who behave as if as a result, nothing they do really matters. They can be selfish, they can be rude, they can be cruel, they can be unfaithful, and it's all fine in the end because they're still safe. They'll tell you of course that everyone should do their best, and they might even tell you that they're doing their best, but the basic tenets of their specific flavor of faith are essentially that Nothing Really Matters. The most extreme evangelical/nondenominational Christians take this especially far like the pastor in the article, and I feel bad for people of faith who have to share the same label with them. (for context, I worked in evangelical christian ministry for multiple years when I was younger)
- bloomingeek 3y ago
  Sadly, I agree. The "always saved" and "faith without fear" motto's give most the idea that humility doesn't matter anymore. Pastor's fill them up with their being special and elect, which is in the heavenly realm, not here on earth. The concept of servant-believers, for most, isn't even on their radar. 2015 was a sort of tipping point, IMO, that has caused a sort of paradigm shift in Christianity. (sorry, a little vague, but I'm still trying to understand all the changes.) My hope is that all Christianity will go back to basic tenets of faith, biblically taught.
  - chrismorgan 3y ago
    > biblically taught And there’s the key. If only people would read the Bible. If they would read even just Philippians 3:12 or Hebrews 10:26 or any of a number of other passages, they would see at once what heresy “once saved, always saved” is. But no, Christianity is too often just a club. Most people have no actual interest in the Bible. God has ever worked with minorities and remnants. Christianity strongly Bible-based will always be small by comparison. I rather like the way Dickens framed it in A Christmas Carol: > “There are some upon this earth of yours,” returned the Spirit, “who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us, and all our kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us.”

jjulius 3y ago

>... but if you're familiar with evangelical Christian culture, this line gets used to justify all sorts of behavior and life decisions that might go against what one would traditionally expect a devour Christian to avoid. Religion being used that way isn't limited to evangelicals nor Christianity. In fact, it's basically the reason people are mocking the phrase.

HarryHirsch 3y ago
I'd rather say that such conduct is mostly confined to evangelicals. Mainstream Christianity teaches that prophecy ceased with Maleachi, and form then onwards we have only the traditions of the Church to go by. That would include a sober ("chaste") lifestyle.
- slavboj 3y ago
  Literally every Christian denomination believes in communication from God, whether that counts as "prophecy" or not.
  - HarryHirsch 3y ago
    Well, yes, Marian apparitions are a thing, but the Virgin isn't going to tell anyone to go out and buy a Porsche.
    - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      The way this understanding is generally formulated is that "public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle", but I have not actually encountered this as a formally defined teaching or doctrine.
      - fellowniusmonk 3y ago
        Cessationism. It's been a big part of the modernistic bent of the dominant Calvinistic protestant denominations. It was also drove the focus on literacy and certainly influenced the trend towards academic and textual rigor. Widely abandoned in the U.S. only quite recently by low and high protestant calvanistic conservative groups alike. Pentecostal and charismatic groups have been around obviously but weren't taken too seriously and were even warned against by dominant evangelicalism, but that has relatively recently changed in conservative Presbyterian circles and influential groups in baptist circles like Sovereign Grace Churches (though they aren't baptist, they've become heavily culturally entwined via southern seminary and other places). This has basically reintroduced miracles and promoted an embrace of magical thinking in laity's daily life that was long absent from those bookish, stuffy, severe, and practical protestants.

AniseAbyss 3y ago

[dead]