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> In one study, bigmouth buffalo had stronger immune systems than younger fish. Or maybe only fishes with a stronger immune system get older ?

crazydoggers 3y ago
Selection bias ~= natural selection. If bigmouth buffalo procreate for more years because they live longer with stronger immune systems, then they will eventually make up the majority of the population.
- np_tedious 3y ago
  So long as they remain capable of reproduction in those later years
  - baxtr 3y ago
    Is that so? I thought it’s enough if they provide an advantage for their genes. Maybe healthier older fish protect their offspring more effectively.
    - crazydoggers 3y ago
      Yes, you’re 100% correct. You’ve described kin selection. So if grandparent fish can somehow help their grandchildren procreate more, then that can be selected for. I’ve heard of territory defense helping with fish, but no idea about the fish mentioned specifically. Also to the previous comment, I think there’s already a fair bit of evidence that older larger fish do continue to breed, (hence throwing back the bigger fish breeders). But if they stop breeding, and there is no kin selection; then yes, natural selection wouldn’t play a role.
  - DelaneyM 3y ago
    Or if they care for their descendants in their later years. (Not saying fish do this, though I wouldn’t be surprised if giant elder fish clear out predators. A lot of people forget this bit but it’s suspected of being a big factor in insect and lobster longevity, which both capable of recognizing their offspring and not being territorial to their presence.)
makz 3y ago
You may be into something. I’ve been on the fish keeping hobby for decades and right now the number 1 cause of mortality of captive fish is immune system overload.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  what does immune system overload mean as you've observed through fish keeping
pitdicker 3y ago
Or something changed in the environment that made younger fish less healthy.
kristopolous 3y ago
Do you really think the researchers aren't aware of survivorship bias?
- darkclouds 3y ago
  [dead]

crazydoggers 3y ago

Selection bias ~= natural selection. If bigmouth buffalo procreate for more years because they live longer with stronger immune systems, then they will eventually make up the majority of the population.

np_tedious 3y ago
So long as they remain capable of reproduction in those later years
- baxtr 3y ago
  Is that so? I thought it’s enough if they provide an advantage for their genes. Maybe healthier older fish protect their offspring more effectively.
  - crazydoggers 3y ago
    Yes, you’re 100% correct. You’ve described kin selection. So if grandparent fish can somehow help their grandchildren procreate more, then that can be selected for. I’ve heard of territory defense helping with fish, but no idea about the fish mentioned specifically. Also to the previous comment, I think there’s already a fair bit of evidence that older larger fish do continue to breed, (hence throwing back the bigger fish breeders). But if they stop breeding, and there is no kin selection; then yes, natural selection wouldn’t play a role.
- DelaneyM 3y ago
  Or if they care for their descendants in their later years. (Not saying fish do this, though I wouldn’t be surprised if giant elder fish clear out predators. A lot of people forget this bit but it’s suspected of being a big factor in insect and lobster longevity, which both capable of recognizing their offspring and not being territorial to their presence.)

makz 3y ago

You may be into something. I’ve been on the fish keeping hobby for decades and right now the number 1 cause of mortality of captive fish is immune system overload.

hackernewds 3y ago
what does immune system overload mean as you've observed through fish keeping

pitdicker 3y ago

Or something changed in the environment that made younger fish less healthy.

kristopolous 3y ago

Do you really think the researchers aren't aware of survivorship bias?

darkclouds 3y ago
[dead]