5 ms·

tbh, I'm surprised it's taken this long for a) Google to publicly admit it, and b) for people to understand that it doesn't hide or erase your digital footprint

tbh, I'm surprised it's taken this long for a) Google to publicly admit it, and b) for people to understand that it doesn't hide or erase your digital footprints online so Google, your ISP and every agent in between is well aware of what you're doing online. In fact, I believe most people still don't understand (b).

jebarker 3y ago
I wonder if the original intent of the feature was to lull people into a false sense of security so the data could be collected on activity people wouldn't otherwise share.
- estebarb 3y ago
  Everyone knows that the original intent is "porn mode", but it would have escandalized the delicate ears of some politicians.
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    Not disagreeing but also 20+ years ago we, the general public, were more likely to be on a shared desktop machine at home rather than each having their own laptop/phone. Funny how browsers adding browsing history as a feature sort of necessitated private mode.
    - gruez 3y ago
      > Not disagreeing but also 20+ years ago we, the general public, were more likely to be on a shared desktop machine at home rather than each having their own laptop/phone. Even if you're not on a shared computer, you don't want "pornhub.com" to show up on your autocomplete when you're screensharing (online or in-person).
  - jebarker 3y ago
    Sure, but was "porn mode" for the benefit of the user or the data collectors? I don't feel like that's a controversial thing to suggest given everything we know about the extent of online tracking and the players involved.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
I agree but I'm not going to point fingers at the public. For most people, this stuff is complicated and I can't expect them to understand it. It would be cool if instead browsers could somehow give them what they are expecting. Like "Private Mode" automatically flips their internet traffic through some kind of reputable and open VPN (not that those currently exist to my knowledge).
- p1mrx 3y ago
  > "Private Mode" automatically flips their internet traffic through some kind of reputable and open VPN I figured out how to do this a couple years ago: https://github.com/pmarks-net/incognito-proxy https://github.com/pmarks-net/incognito-proxy If you have a VPN service that provides a SOCKS proxy server, the chrome.proxy API can tell Incognito tabs to use the VPN, while leaving normal tabs unaffected.
makapuf 3y ago
Given that IIRC cookies are not included in private mode nor saved, what are your footprints made of? I guess firefox at least erases obvious ones like user agent, resolution or other fingerprints from incognito mode ?
- baby_souffle 3y ago
  Ip address and user agent + whatever unique information about the browser you can pull via Java script (fonts, timezone, screen size/shape….)
- sowbug 3y ago
  Visit EFF's Panopticlick to learn more. https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
  - makapuf 3y ago
    Yikes. Is there a better-privacy extension for firefox ? (that sets you UA as chrome, your resolution as standard, unsets js sensitive api/canvas fingerprint...)?
sowbug 3y ago
The incognito warning has always said that websites can still track you.* Point (b) won't be helped much by letting people know that Google is also a website. *https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f1a419907a9412154760efd0b7abc3%5E%21/ https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f... (find IDS_NEW_TAB_OTR_MESSAGE)
- LegionMammal978 3y ago
  For the sake of completeness, I've traced the evolution of the notice over time: From 2008-07-26 [0]: "Going incognito doesn't affect the behavior of other people, servers, or software. Be wary of: / • Websites that collect or share information about you / • Internet service providers or employers that track the pages you visit / • Malicious software that tracks your keystrokes in exchange for free smileys / • Surveillance by secret agents / • People standing behind you" From 2013-12-07 [1]: "Going incognito doesn't affect the behavior of other people, servers, software, or people standing behind you." From 2013-12-13 [2]: "However, you aren't invisible. Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, or the websites you visit." From 2014-02-27 [3]: "However, you aren't invisible. Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, governments and other sophisticated attackers, or the websites you visit." From 2014-04-29 [4]: "Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, or the websites you visit." From 2016-01-15 [5]: "However, you aren't invisible. Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, or the websites you visit." From 2017-02-27 [6]: "Your activity might still be visible to: / • Websites you visit / • Your employer / • Your internet service provider" From 2017-03-29 [7]: "Your activity might still be visible to: / • Websites you visit / • Your employer or school / • Your internet service provider" Note that some of these were behind a feature flag for a few months. Also, it looks like they've been intending to elaborate on the Incognito new-tab page for some time, as part of the "Revamped Incognito NTP" project. You can view the modified text with 'chromium --enable-features=IncognitoNtpRevamp': From 2021-08-13 [8]: "What Incognito doesn't do / Incognito does not make you invisible online: / • Sites know when you visit them / • Employers or schools can track browsing activity / • Internet service providers may monitor web traffic" From 2022-01-25 [9]: "What Incognito doesn't do / Incognito does not make you invisible online: / • Sites and the services they use can see visits / • Employers or schools can track browsing activity / • Internet service providers can monitor web traffic" [0] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f1a419907a9412154760efd0b7abc3%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f... [1] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/c5e36c57178a65b3b8d05b0c7699edb92b2420a9%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/c5e36c57178... [2] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/7082150682537dbf9b1a8663898e61fb285b6ec8%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/70821506825... [3] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/ab54bd65701f3e6927cc4dcc1d04840e7e14a0b2%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/ab54bd65701... [4] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/eb09a62ef40f62e8ae9a13071cf7e47d6915ebd9%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/eb09a62ef40... [5] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/b7dac1a6a7997c1c7bb440d5eb5a4aa6ee38cf8b%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/b7dac1a6a79... [6] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/cfe102adddc5a18fc2cc6c453e5342450895aa4b%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/cfe102adddc... [7] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/7ca3ccf74e804e13da4c622177f6fc6787019c1e%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/7ca3ccf74e8... [8] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/e6ae57ba3857ce1ea8fbe1747adedc71dfa255a4%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/e6ae57ba385... [9] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/8b349f6c9849e5b8722659dbe82d25c4a2fe849f%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/8b349f6c984...
Kiro 3y ago
Admit what? There's no big secret being unfolded here. They're just clarifying how it works. There's no way for a browser to hide your identity unless you're also using a VPN, proxy and other tricks. All they can do is separate and wipe the session locally, which is what all private modes in browser are doing.

jebarker 3y ago

I wonder if the original intent of the feature was to lull people into a false sense of security so the data could be collected on activity people wouldn't otherwise share.

estebarb 3y ago
Everyone knows that the original intent is "porn mode", but it would have escandalized the delicate ears of some politicians.
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  Not disagreeing but also 20+ years ago we, the general public, were more likely to be on a shared desktop machine at home rather than each having their own laptop/phone. Funny how browsers adding browsing history as a feature sort of necessitated private mode.
  - gruez 3y ago
    > Not disagreeing but also 20+ years ago we, the general public, were more likely to be on a shared desktop machine at home rather than each having their own laptop/phone. Even if you're not on a shared computer, you don't want "pornhub.com" to show up on your autocomplete when you're screensharing (online or in-person).
- jebarker 3y ago
  Sure, but was "porn mode" for the benefit of the user or the data collectors? I don't feel like that's a controversial thing to suggest given everything we know about the extent of online tracking and the players involved.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

I agree but I'm not going to point fingers at the public. For most people, this stuff is complicated and I can't expect them to understand it. It would be cool if instead browsers could somehow give them what they are expecting. Like "Private Mode" automatically flips their internet traffic through some kind of reputable and open VPN (not that those currently exist to my knowledge).

p1mrx 3y ago
> "Private Mode" automatically flips their internet traffic through some kind of reputable and open VPN I figured out how to do this a couple years ago: https://github.com/pmarks-net/incognito-proxy https://github.com/pmarks-net/incognito-proxy If you have a VPN service that provides a SOCKS proxy server, the chrome.proxy API can tell Incognito tabs to use the VPN, while leaving normal tabs unaffected.

makapuf 3y ago

Given that IIRC cookies are not included in private mode nor saved, what are your footprints made of? I guess firefox at least erases obvious ones like user agent, resolution or other fingerprints from incognito mode ?

baby_souffle 3y ago
Ip address and user agent + whatever unique information about the browser you can pull via Java script (fonts, timezone, screen size/shape….)
sowbug 3y ago
Visit EFF's Panopticlick to learn more. https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
- makapuf 3y ago
  Yikes. Is there a better-privacy extension for firefox ? (that sets you UA as chrome, your resolution as standard, unsets js sensitive api/canvas fingerprint...)?

sowbug 3y ago

The incognito warning has always said that websites can still track you.* Point (b) won't be helped much by letting people know that Google is also a website. *https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f1a419907a9412154760efd0b7abc3%5E%21/ https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f... (find IDS_NEW_TAB_OTR_MESSAGE)

LegionMammal978 3y ago
For the sake of completeness, I've traced the evolution of the notice over time: From 2008-07-26 [0]: "Going incognito doesn't affect the behavior of other people, servers, or software. Be wary of: / • Websites that collect or share information about you / • Internet service providers or employers that track the pages you visit / • Malicious software that tracks your keystrokes in exchange for free smileys / • Surveillance by secret agents / • People standing behind you" From 2013-12-07 [1]: "Going incognito doesn't affect the behavior of other people, servers, software, or people standing behind you." From 2013-12-13 [2]: "However, you aren't invisible. Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, or the websites you visit." From 2014-02-27 [3]: "However, you aren't invisible. Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, governments and other sophisticated attackers, or the websites you visit." From 2014-04-29 [4]: "Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, or the websites you visit." From 2016-01-15 [5]: "However, you aren't invisible. Going incognito doesn't hide your browsing from your employer, your internet service provider, or the websites you visit." From 2017-02-27 [6]: "Your activity might still be visible to: / • Websites you visit / • Your employer / • Your internet service provider" From 2017-03-29 [7]: "Your activity might still be visible to: / • Websites you visit / • Your employer or school / • Your internet service provider" Note that some of these were behind a feature flag for a few months. Also, it looks like they've been intending to elaborate on the Incognito new-tab page for some time, as part of the "Revamped Incognito NTP" project. You can view the modified text with 'chromium --enable-features=IncognitoNtpRevamp': From 2021-08-13 [8]: "What Incognito doesn't do / Incognito does not make you invisible online: / • Sites know when you visit them / • Employers or schools can track browsing activity / • Internet service providers may monitor web traffic" From 2022-01-25 [9]: "What Incognito doesn't do / Incognito does not make you invisible online: / • Sites and the services they use can see visits / • Employers or schools can track browsing activity / • Internet service providers can monitor web traffic" [0] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f1a419907a9412154760efd0b7abc3%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/09911bf300f... [1] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/c5e36c57178a65b3b8d05b0c7699edb92b2420a9%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/c5e36c57178... [2] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/7082150682537dbf9b1a8663898e61fb285b6ec8%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/70821506825... [3] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/ab54bd65701f3e6927cc4dcc1d04840e7e14a0b2%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/ab54bd65701... [4] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/eb09a62ef40f62e8ae9a13071cf7e47d6915ebd9%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/eb09a62ef40... [5] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/b7dac1a6a7997c1c7bb440d5eb5a4aa6ee38cf8b%5E!/chrome/app/generated_resources.grd https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/b7dac1a6a79... [6] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/cfe102adddc5a18fc2cc6c453e5342450895aa4b%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/cfe102adddc... [7] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/7ca3ccf74e804e13da4c622177f6fc6787019c1e%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/7ca3ccf74e8... [8] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/e6ae57ba3857ce1ea8fbe1747adedc71dfa255a4%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/e6ae57ba385... [9] https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/8b349f6c9849e5b8722659dbe82d25c4a2fe849f%5E!/components/new_or_sad_tab_strings.grdp https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/8b349f6c984...

Kiro 3y ago

Admit what? There's no big secret being unfolded here. They're just clarifying how it works. There's no way for a browser to hide your identity unless you're also using a VPN, proxy and other tricks. All they can do is separate and wipe the session locally, which is what all private modes in browser are doing.