4 ms·

No, you got it wrong. I would say that the current outcry about Gaza is mostly driven by a false sense of siding with the underdog. But just because some people

by prmph 3y ago

No, you got it wrong. I would say that the current outcry about Gaza is mostly driven by a false sense of siding with the underdog. But just because some people appear to be the underdog doesn't mean they are right. And just so you know, I'm not white. Not even probably brown, ethnically. I'm classified as black African, and, and from where I sit, the Middle Eastern nations are not in any position to point fingers at a supposed disregard of brown lives, when one considers how they treat migrants, a lot from Africa. Arab "slavery" of Africans is still a thing Settler violence is certainly wrong. However Israel also left Gaza years ago and have been rewarded with constant rocket attacks, and more. > Like, Israel openly claiming that their goal is to basically relocate and displace the local Gaza population is good actually Fine, tell me what the solution is then. If your response is that Israel ceases to exist, then I guess there is no longer a basis for discussion - good luck - I have no bone in this. But if not, then how is the security of Israel to be ensured? The vast amount of funds that flowed into Gaza has only been used to attack Israel, and Gazans are now much worse off. How is this a wise course of action?

mardifoufs 3y ago
See this is exactly the double standard I was talking about. Why do you just say that "settler violence is wrong But..."? It's not just settler violence that is the problem, it's the fact that the Israeli state completely backs said colonies. Why does Israel gets to exist, no matter what, but Palestinians can be displaced and removed at will if it allows Israel to keep existing? Also, as I said in my other comment, the west bank did exactly what you suggest. They stopped the armed struggle, they started a more democratic path. In return, Israel has pushed colonies relentlessly. In that situation, why wouldn't the Palestinians fight? Just like Israel would fight anyone who tries to settler their land. And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman. They have also stated that they wanted to push for a return to settlements (a minister in nethanyahou's government said so overtly back in April). Again completely unpunished. Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews?
- aaomidi 3y ago
  Honestly, people can’t seem to judge an event by only that event. Let’s be honest here, the west has probably done the worst amount of damage to the most, both in count and diversity, people out there. Yet we do not sit around saying, ah westerners deserve to be killed because of $historical_event_#. For some reason, that judgment is always valid to brown folk. As a brown person in the west I’ve basically accepted that I’m only considered a human in this country as long as I toe the line and agree with the status quo. If I step out too much I’m worth less than an animal.
- prmph 3y ago
  > And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman. How can you say that with a straight face. Israel implemented a blockade to prevent _weapons_ from flowing into Gaza, a good thing, I would say. Or are you saying they prevented aid from flowing into Gaza? That would be quite the claim. > Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews? I was responding to your claim that brown lives matter less in the west. If you are painting with such a broad brush like the "west", then may I also be permitted to paint with a similar brush "Middle East". Are you saying Palestinians are somehow more moral that Arabs in general? But, you don't even address my main point. What's your solution? For Israel to cease to exist?
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    They absolutely prevented aid from flowing. There's a single crossing where merchandise is allowed, and it's in Israel. Egypt is not allowed to let merchandise in , and that's since the camp David treaty back in the 70s. Way before Gaza became an insurgent nest. The west bank was the hotspot back then but it didn't prevent Israel from preventing any development there, and occupying the place until 2005. Also, for a concrete example, you can look at the Gaza flotilla attack where Israel not only prevented aid, but literally murdered those on the ship. Just like the Houthis do, I guess :). Again, how can Israel claim that they have left Gaza alone when it is literally completely cutting it off from the outside world (again, the Gaza residents are at the mercy of whatever goes through Israel before Hamas took control). Hamas is a convenient boogeyman, but before Hamas Israel settlements already existed, Israeli occupation and complete control over external connections was already in place, etc. Israel does not leave the west bank alone either now, even with no real armed groups left there.

by prmph 3y ago

mardifoufs 3y ago

See this is exactly the double standard I was talking about. Why do you just say that "settler violence is wrong But..."? It's not just settler violence that is the problem, it's the fact that the Israeli state completely backs said colonies. Why does Israel gets to exist, no matter what, but Palestinians can be displaced and removed at will if it allows Israel to keep existing? Also, as I said in my other comment, the west bank did exactly what you suggest. They stopped the armed struggle, they started a more democratic path. In return, Israel has pushed colonies relentlessly. In that situation, why wouldn't the Palestinians fight? Just like Israel would fight anyone who tries to settler their land. And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman. They have also stated that they wanted to push for a return to settlements (a minister in nethanyahou's government said so overtly back in April). Again completely unpunished. Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews?

aaomidi 3y ago
Honestly, people can’t seem to judge an event by only that event. Let’s be honest here, the west has probably done the worst amount of damage to the most, both in count and diversity, people out there. Yet we do not sit around saying, ah westerners deserve to be killed because of $historical_event_#. For some reason, that judgment is always valid to brown folk. As a brown person in the west I’ve basically accepted that I’m only considered a human in this country as long as I toe the line and agree with the status quo. If I step out too much I’m worth less than an animal.
prmph 3y ago
> And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman. How can you say that with a straight face. Israel implemented a blockade to prevent _weapons_ from flowing into Gaza, a good thing, I would say. Or are you saying they prevented aid from flowing into Gaza? That would be quite the claim. > Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews? I was responding to your claim that brown lives matter less in the west. If you are painting with such a broad brush like the "west", then may I also be permitted to paint with a similar brush "Middle East". Are you saying Palestinians are somehow more moral that Arabs in general? But, you don't even address my main point. What's your solution? For Israel to cease to exist?
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  They absolutely prevented aid from flowing. There's a single crossing where merchandise is allowed, and it's in Israel. Egypt is not allowed to let merchandise in , and that's since the camp David treaty back in the 70s. Way before Gaza became an insurgent nest. The west bank was the hotspot back then but it didn't prevent Israel from preventing any development there, and occupying the place until 2005. Also, for a concrete example, you can look at the Gaza flotilla attack where Israel not only prevented aid, but literally murdered those on the ship. Just like the Houthis do, I guess :). Again, how can Israel claim that they have left Gaza alone when it is literally completely cutting it off from the outside world (again, the Gaza residents are at the mercy of whatever goes through Israel before Hamas took control). Hamas is a convenient boogeyman, but before Hamas Israel settlements already existed, Israeli occupation and complete control over external connections was already in place, etc. Israel does not leave the west bank alone either now, even with no real armed groups left there.