4 ms·

It doesn't matter. Attacking first or being attacked does not give you the right to level a complete city and does not give you the right to openly call for dis

It doesn't matter. Attacking first or being attacked does not give you the right to level a complete city and does not give you the right to openly call for displacing a population. Israel is also actively pushing for colonization of Palestinian lands well before the war started, just like Russia was slowly trying to encroach on Ukrainian lands at first. Even beyond the whatboutism in your comment, sure yeah, let's talk about how trying to restore old entities and states is a bad thing. But isn't that the whole premise of Zionism? It's literally the reasoning behind the Israel state backed settlements in the west bank. Somehow I guess Israeli colonialism is just different... because reasons. And somehow, it's not an act of aggression. Sure! And before you say that Gaza didn't have any colonies, well they didn't exactly because they have been aggressive (and it doesn't matter, Palestinians view themselves as a nation so it happening in the west bank is just as important for people living in Gaza). The west bank stopped "being aggressive" and stopped the armed struggle and they have been rewarded with 2 decades of constant, blatant pushes for ever more settlements by literal lunatics and Israeli supremacists. All endorsed fully by the military and the Israeli state.

aaomidi 3y ago
[flagged]
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  I completely got that. A few months ago I'd have said you are being dramatic, but the insane mental gymnastics that people do to justify and even cheering for Israel's actions while at the very same time have the reaction they had to Ukraine getting invaded back in 2022 leaves me with no other possible conclusion. And to be honest I don't even care, I get it and I don't expect westerners to care about us but what annoys me is truly that they actually believe that there is no hypocrisy or biais. So they just go on full on revisionism, colonialist apologia, they suddenly believe everything the military that is currently killing civilians says, and they use literal Russian tier arguments of "well they voted for Hamas 15 years ago!". Just because Israel is on our side, so what they do is justified, and Russia isn't Like, Israel openly claiming that their goal is to basically relocate and displace the local Gaza population is good actually, it's just self defense. And hey, we can't avoid civilian deaths and Israel has the right to self defense (defense is when you colonize another nation). It's insane, Israeli officials are super open about their objectives but it seems like Israel supporters know better than them.
  - prmph 3y ago
    No, you got it wrong. I would say that the current outcry about Gaza is mostly driven by a false sense of siding with the underdog. But just because some people appear to be the underdog doesn't mean they are right. And just so you know, I'm not white. Not even probably brown, ethnically. I'm classified as black African, and, and from where I sit, the Middle Eastern nations are not in any position to point fingers at a supposed disregard of brown lives, when one considers how they treat migrants, a lot from Africa. Arab "slavery" of Africans is still a thing Settler violence is certainly wrong. However Israel also left Gaza years ago and have been rewarded with constant rocket attacks, and more. > Like, Israel openly claiming that their goal is to basically relocate and displace the local Gaza population is good actually Fine, tell me what the solution is then. If your response is that Israel ceases to exist, then I guess there is no longer a basis for discussion - good luck - I have no bone in this. But if not, then how is the security of Israel to be ensured? The vast amount of funds that flowed into Gaza has only been used to attack Israel, and Gazans are now much worse off. How is this a wise course of action?
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      See this is exactly the double standard I was talking about. Why do you just say that "settler violence is wrong But..."? It's not just settler violence that is the problem, it's the fact that the Israeli state completely backs said colonies. Why does Israel gets to exist, no matter what, but Palestinians can be displaced and removed at will if it allows Israel to keep existing? Also, as I said in my other comment, the west bank did exactly what you suggest. They stopped the armed struggle, they started a more democratic path. In return, Israel has pushed colonies relentlessly. In that situation, why wouldn't the Palestinians fight? Just like Israel would fight anyone who tries to settler their land. And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman. They have also stated that they wanted to push for a return to settlements (a minister in nethanyahou's government said so overtly back in April). Again completely unpunished. Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews?

aaomidi 3y ago

[flagged]

mardifoufs 3y ago
I completely got that. A few months ago I'd have said you are being dramatic, but the insane mental gymnastics that people do to justify and even cheering for Israel's actions while at the very same time have the reaction they had to Ukraine getting invaded back in 2022 leaves me with no other possible conclusion. And to be honest I don't even care, I get it and I don't expect westerners to care about us but what annoys me is truly that they actually believe that there is no hypocrisy or biais. So they just go on full on revisionism, colonialist apologia, they suddenly believe everything the military that is currently killing civilians says, and they use literal Russian tier arguments of "well they voted for Hamas 15 years ago!". Just because Israel is on our side, so what they do is justified, and Russia isn't Like, Israel openly claiming that their goal is to basically relocate and displace the local Gaza population is good actually, it's just self defense. And hey, we can't avoid civilian deaths and Israel has the right to self defense (defense is when you colonize another nation). It's insane, Israeli officials are super open about their objectives but it seems like Israel supporters know better than them.
- prmph 3y ago
  No, you got it wrong. I would say that the current outcry about Gaza is mostly driven by a false sense of siding with the underdog. But just because some people appear to be the underdog doesn't mean they are right. And just so you know, I'm not white. Not even probably brown, ethnically. I'm classified as black African, and, and from where I sit, the Middle Eastern nations are not in any position to point fingers at a supposed disregard of brown lives, when one considers how they treat migrants, a lot from Africa. Arab "slavery" of Africans is still a thing Settler violence is certainly wrong. However Israel also left Gaza years ago and have been rewarded with constant rocket attacks, and more. > Like, Israel openly claiming that their goal is to basically relocate and displace the local Gaza population is good actually Fine, tell me what the solution is then. If your response is that Israel ceases to exist, then I guess there is no longer a basis for discussion - good luck - I have no bone in this. But if not, then how is the security of Israel to be ensured? The vast amount of funds that flowed into Gaza has only been used to attack Israel, and Gazans are now much worse off. How is this a wise course of action?
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    See this is exactly the double standard I was talking about. Why do you just say that "settler violence is wrong But..."? It's not just settler violence that is the problem, it's the fact that the Israeli state completely backs said colonies. Why does Israel gets to exist, no matter what, but Palestinians can be displaced and removed at will if it allows Israel to keep existing? Also, as I said in my other comment, the west bank did exactly what you suggest. They stopped the armed struggle, they started a more democratic path. In return, Israel has pushed colonies relentlessly. In that situation, why wouldn't the Palestinians fight? Just like Israel would fight anyone who tries to settler their land. And to say that they left Gaza alone is just an outright lie. They have had control over every port of entry, with merchandise not being able to enter into Gaza with Israeli approval since... the 1980s. Before the Hamas boogeyman. They have also stated that they wanted to push for a return to settlements (a minister in nethanyahou's government said so overtly back in April). Again completely unpunished. Also, what do Palestinians have to do with African slavery? Do we attribute that to all Arabs? Does that logic works too for blaming say, a Nigerian for something South Africans do? Do you blame Israelis for their treatment of Ethiopian Jews?