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> Not without reservations, but it's not like Israel's neighbors tolerated its existence Of course not, why on earth would anyone tolerate a bunch of invaders

> Not without reservations, but it's not like Israel's neighbors tolerated its existence Of course not, why on earth would anyone tolerate a bunch of invaders taking over their land? Zionists are really still making that argument as if it makes a lick of sense. No sane human would react otherwise. >Funny you ask that, makes me wonder what happened to the jews of the levantine and arab countries What came first? Exactly, Zionists started ethnic-cleansing Palestinians and IN RESPONSE their neighbors acted in kind, which by the way was exactly what Zionists wanted anyway. They wanted and needed as many jews in occupied Palestine as possible, so it was an emotional response from their neighbors that was a moral and strategic mistake.

Morte42 3y ago
For Zionists that isnt just land, its the land they got from god after Moses freed them from Egypt and split the sea to get them out of there and then close the sea on the pursuing Egyptians. The point of reclaiming Zion is to ultimately reclaim Mount Temple to build the Final Temple and usher in the end of days and an eternity of paradise. One of the strange things with Israel is a lot of people that are pro Israel dont know anything about the nation. Ignorance usually breeds hate and not love. Or maybe being darker skinned is the key.
- jedimind 3y ago
  Is this a joke? It surely has to be. No one cares what some fantasy book teaches. God is not a registered real estate broker, as they also say: "Most Zionists don't even believe in God but they do believe that he 'promised' them Palestine" Regardless, your narrative is false because we know exactly what the founding father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, wrote about Zionism in great detail in his book "Der Judenstaat" and it was a colonial project from day 1. They even considered colonizing Alaska or Uganda before they decided to colonize Palestine. There is no hasbara you could tell me that I haven't heard before in my 20 years of dealing with zionists. All of your narratives contradict each other and try to deflect from the reality that "israel" is and was a colonial project from its inception.
  - Morte42 3y ago
    Its not a joke, just to clarify this isnt my belief. I am telling you why Zion is worth so much to some people. In Judaism there will never be an end of days unless the final temple is built on Mount Temple, even for millions of years. But the issue is that if we try and speak logically to both this nation and its backers we will never win. Noticed how little sympathy the people in Palestine get compared to people in Ukraine? Why do you think that is? If I was to say the Palestinians are Arab savages I would be reprimanded for being prejudice but making excuses for their continuing genocide isnt prejudice? These commenters are just articulating the same venom that their parents and grandparents did, in a different way but its the same bile fundamentally. Preaching logic to hateful people that think they are superior makes as much sense in 2024 as it did in Malcolm X’s day. Dont bother trying to talk logic to people like that, they dont listen to your kind.
    - jedimind 3y ago
      >Its not a joke, just to clarify this isnt my belief. I am telling you why Zion is worth so much to some people. In Judaism there will never be an end of days unless the final temple is built on Mount Temple, even for millions of years. But the issue is that if we try and speak logically to both this nation and its backers we will never win. Thanks for clarifying. Most European Zionists, including Theodor Herzl, were and still are secular. These false post hoc narratives about religious motivations are a deflection from the real reason why Zionists wanted to colonize Palestine and it had nothing to do with religious folklore. It only became a talking point later when colonialism became a "bad word" and they were trying to legitimize their colonial project via other means. >Noticed how little sympathy the people in Palestine get compared to people in Ukraine? Why do you think that is? If I was to say the Palestinians are Arab savages I would be reprimanded for being prejudice but making excuses for their continuing genocide isnt prejudice? You could say that arabs or muslims are savages without facing any serious repercussions in most cases assuming that you live in Europe or America. In theory Islamophobia, like any other form of bigotry like antisemitism or homophobia, is supposedly not acceptable but in reality it is and there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for it one of which you already stated. In reality there is an hierarchy of victimhood, where the validity and impact of different groups' experiences are often weighed and measured differently by those in positions of power or with societal influence. The biggest irony is that the same people who are quick to shut down any form of criticism of israel, by intentionally conflating a political entity with jewish people itself, by screaming antisemitism, also engage in the most viscous Islamophobic tropes to defend their apartheid ethno-state while seeing absolutely no irony in their own bigotry. So it's obvious that it's not really about being tolerant or civilized, but rather about cleverly weaponizing narratives to reshape politics in one's own best interest. >These commenters are just articulating the same venom that their parents and grandparents did, in a different way but its the same bile fundamentally. Preaching logic to hateful people that think they are superior makes as much sense in 2024 as it did in Malcolm X’s day. Dont bother trying to talk logic to people like that, they dont listen to your kind. You're correct, but they are also assisted by the fact that geopolitical dynamics provide them with impunity such that their psychotic behavior compounds over time because it never gets checked and thus mutates into worse behavior over time.
- flandish 3y ago
  No. It’d land they agreed to take with the help of england who was at risk of losing ww1. Zionism did not exist until the late 19th century and was based in Berlin at the time england suggested splitting up the middle east. The who “our history from God” thing is a retconn.
- prmph 3y ago
  I hope you know how the Muslims acquired the lands they live on now, down through the centuries? Hint, it wasn't by asking nicely. And the numerous attacks on the Israelis since it was formed, after each of which Israel gained more land? And the numerous offers made to the Palestinians for a state which they refused?
  - jedimind 3y ago
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    - prmph 3y ago
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      - deleted 3y ago
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      - jedimind 3y ago
        [flagged]
        prmph 3y ago
        > It doesn't justify it, because presenting yourself as a victim and betraying the trust and good heart of the native population just to backstab them is a different case than war between countries. The violent Islamic expansion was not a war between countries. Is Islam a country? It was a rampage for land, pure and simple [1] > Any mentally sane human would have rejected that "resolution", which is/was non-binding anyway Hear, hear, now hardly a day passes without another UN resolution against Israel, sponsored by the same elements, who then accuse Israel of not complying with the resolutions. If the resolutions are non-binding, why do they keep accusing Israel of not heeding them? On the other hand, do we get to pick and choose which resolutions we will heed or not? > Why are you saying "accused" when Israel has a documented track record of ignoring international law International law should be followed by all, at all times. The Palestinians and their backers have no moral high ground here, not at all. > Again, that's a complete lie and I have linked you a detailed documentary[0] which exposes that narrative as a fabrication of the israeli hasbara ministry Was Egypt not massing troops in preparation for an attack on Israel? Or are we living in separate universes. > It's truly fascinating how you, as a black man, are so hellbent on defending an apartheid ethno-state with such cold-blooded dishonesty. You are avoiding my question: In your opinion, is the conflict not be resolvable until Israel is obliterated? And, what does the fact that I'm black have to do with anything? > Any sensible human wants to see an end to apartheid and occupation first. The call for a ceasefire has nothing to do with that, Oh, so you don't want a proper solution for now. You just you want a ceasefire that gives Hamas a reprieve to continue to build up their capacity to massacre Israeli civilians again. > That's Israel you are talking about and this description perfectly describes Israel's genocidal behavior Again, you don't answer my question: How do you live with, or negotiate, with an adversary who is only seeking your total destruction? What exactly does Hamas want again? > I've used it precisely 2 times, how is that many times? You guys can't just stick to debating facts without dishonestly accusing others of antisemitism because you know that your arguments are all based on lies and distortions. It is you who cannot stick to the argument without resorting to name calling and ad-hominem attacks. You have called me a liar, cold-blooded, not mentally sane, and the like. [1] https://medium.com/@mehrdadyousefi_/was-muslim-conquest-of-persia-violent-67d506623f9d https://medium.com/@mehrdadyousefi_/was-muslim-conquest-of-p...

Morte42 3y ago

For Zionists that isnt just land, its the land they got from god after Moses freed them from Egypt and split the sea to get them out of there and then close the sea on the pursuing Egyptians. The point of reclaiming Zion is to ultimately reclaim Mount Temple to build the Final Temple and usher in the end of days and an eternity of paradise. One of the strange things with Israel is a lot of people that are pro Israel dont know anything about the nation. Ignorance usually breeds hate and not love. Or maybe being darker skinned is the key.

jedimind 3y ago
Is this a joke? It surely has to be. No one cares what some fantasy book teaches. God is not a registered real estate broker, as they also say: "Most Zionists don't even believe in God but they do believe that he 'promised' them Palestine" Regardless, your narrative is false because we know exactly what the founding father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, wrote about Zionism in great detail in his book "Der Judenstaat" and it was a colonial project from day 1. They even considered colonizing Alaska or Uganda before they decided to colonize Palestine. There is no hasbara you could tell me that I haven't heard before in my 20 years of dealing with zionists. All of your narratives contradict each other and try to deflect from the reality that "israel" is and was a colonial project from its inception.
- Morte42 3y ago
  Its not a joke, just to clarify this isnt my belief. I am telling you why Zion is worth so much to some people. In Judaism there will never be an end of days unless the final temple is built on Mount Temple, even for millions of years. But the issue is that if we try and speak logically to both this nation and its backers we will never win. Noticed how little sympathy the people in Palestine get compared to people in Ukraine? Why do you think that is? If I was to say the Palestinians are Arab savages I would be reprimanded for being prejudice but making excuses for their continuing genocide isnt prejudice? These commenters are just articulating the same venom that their parents and grandparents did, in a different way but its the same bile fundamentally. Preaching logic to hateful people that think they are superior makes as much sense in 2024 as it did in Malcolm X’s day. Dont bother trying to talk logic to people like that, they dont listen to your kind.
  - jedimind 3y ago
    >Its not a joke, just to clarify this isnt my belief. I am telling you why Zion is worth so much to some people. In Judaism there will never be an end of days unless the final temple is built on Mount Temple, even for millions of years. But the issue is that if we try and speak logically to both this nation and its backers we will never win. Thanks for clarifying. Most European Zionists, including Theodor Herzl, were and still are secular. These false post hoc narratives about religious motivations are a deflection from the real reason why Zionists wanted to colonize Palestine and it had nothing to do with religious folklore. It only became a talking point later when colonialism became a "bad word" and they were trying to legitimize their colonial project via other means. >Noticed how little sympathy the people in Palestine get compared to people in Ukraine? Why do you think that is? If I was to say the Palestinians are Arab savages I would be reprimanded for being prejudice but making excuses for their continuing genocide isnt prejudice? You could say that arabs or muslims are savages without facing any serious repercussions in most cases assuming that you live in Europe or America. In theory Islamophobia, like any other form of bigotry like antisemitism or homophobia, is supposedly not acceptable but in reality it is and there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for it one of which you already stated. In reality there is an hierarchy of victimhood, where the validity and impact of different groups' experiences are often weighed and measured differently by those in positions of power or with societal influence. The biggest irony is that the same people who are quick to shut down any form of criticism of israel, by intentionally conflating a political entity with jewish people itself, by screaming antisemitism, also engage in the most viscous Islamophobic tropes to defend their apartheid ethno-state while seeing absolutely no irony in their own bigotry. So it's obvious that it's not really about being tolerant or civilized, but rather about cleverly weaponizing narratives to reshape politics in one's own best interest. >These commenters are just articulating the same venom that their parents and grandparents did, in a different way but its the same bile fundamentally. Preaching logic to hateful people that think they are superior makes as much sense in 2024 as it did in Malcolm X’s day. Dont bother trying to talk logic to people like that, they dont listen to your kind. You're correct, but they are also assisted by the fact that geopolitical dynamics provide them with impunity such that their psychotic behavior compounds over time because it never gets checked and thus mutates into worse behavior over time.
flandish 3y ago
No. It’d land they agreed to take with the help of england who was at risk of losing ww1. Zionism did not exist until the late 19th century and was based in Berlin at the time england suggested splitting up the middle east. The who “our history from God” thing is a retconn.
prmph 3y ago
I hope you know how the Muslims acquired the lands they live on now, down through the centuries? Hint, it wasn't by asking nicely. And the numerous attacks on the Israelis since it was formed, after each of which Israel gained more land? And the numerous offers made to the Palestinians for a state which they refused?
- jedimind 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - prmph 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - jedimind 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - prmph 3y ago
        > It doesn't justify it, because presenting yourself as a victim and betraying the trust and good heart of the native population just to backstab them is a different case than war between countries. The violent Islamic expansion was not a war between countries. Is Islam a country? It was a rampage for land, pure and simple [1] > Any mentally sane human would have rejected that "resolution", which is/was non-binding anyway Hear, hear, now hardly a day passes without another UN resolution against Israel, sponsored by the same elements, who then accuse Israel of not complying with the resolutions. If the resolutions are non-binding, why do they keep accusing Israel of not heeding them? On the other hand, do we get to pick and choose which resolutions we will heed or not? > Why are you saying "accused" when Israel has a documented track record of ignoring international law International law should be followed by all, at all times. The Palestinians and their backers have no moral high ground here, not at all. > Again, that's a complete lie and I have linked you a detailed documentary[0] which exposes that narrative as a fabrication of the israeli hasbara ministry Was Egypt not massing troops in preparation for an attack on Israel? Or are we living in separate universes. > It's truly fascinating how you, as a black man, are so hellbent on defending an apartheid ethno-state with such cold-blooded dishonesty. You are avoiding my question: In your opinion, is the conflict not be resolvable until Israel is obliterated? And, what does the fact that I'm black have to do with anything? > Any sensible human wants to see an end to apartheid and occupation first. The call for a ceasefire has nothing to do with that, Oh, so you don't want a proper solution for now. You just you want a ceasefire that gives Hamas a reprieve to continue to build up their capacity to massacre Israeli civilians again. > That's Israel you are talking about and this description perfectly describes Israel's genocidal behavior Again, you don't answer my question: How do you live with, or negotiate, with an adversary who is only seeking your total destruction? What exactly does Hamas want again? > I've used it precisely 2 times, how is that many times? You guys can't just stick to debating facts without dishonestly accusing others of antisemitism because you know that your arguments are all based on lies and distortions. It is you who cannot stick to the argument without resorting to name calling and ad-hominem attacks. You have called me a liar, cold-blooded, not mentally sane, and the like. [1] https://medium.com/@mehrdadyousefi_/was-muslim-conquest-of-persia-violent-67d506623f9d https://medium.com/@mehrdadyousefi_/was-muslim-conquest-of-p...