4 ms·

I swear, every ADHD post on hacker news, someone comes in here with this uninformed nonsense. For those of you afflicted with this curse, lookup Dr Russell Bar

I swear, every ADHD post on hacker news, someone comes in here with this uninformed nonsense. For those of you afflicted with this curse, lookup Dr Russell Barkley’s videos on YouTube. He’s retired now, but was a great ADHD researcher. Really helped me understand what was going on.

lolinder 3y ago
Care to elaborate, or was your goal just to be insulting for the sake of it? What specifically did I say that was "uninformed nonsense"? What are the facts that contradict what I said? If you can't provide something more substantial than vague insults then you're never going to persuade anyone of anything.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
romeros 3y ago
Dr. Russell Barkley's brother who had ADHD ended up becoming homeless and dying. He is biased and has a negative outlook on ADD. He talks in a very authoritarian manner. You should look up other prominent ADHD experts like Ed Hallowell who have a more positive take. Richard Feynman famously wrote "Science is the Belief in the Ignorance of the Experts". He meant, and explained that "science - a.k.a. research - is in the making, belongs to the (unknown, yet to be discovered) future, while expertise is based on the past, with in-built obsolescence".
- flir 3y ago
  I'm ADHD and I don't buy that "would have made great cavemen, natural movers and shakers" rubbish for a minute. Dude above who was worried he wouldn't have electricity when his g/f came over because he just couldn't handle paying the bill on time? Much closer to the mark. When I got together with my now-wife, she sorted out a water bill I'd been paying on my old place for months because I hadn't gotten around to telling them I'd moved. My psychiatrist recommended Gabor Maté for what it's worth, but I prefer a really reductionist "it's all about dopamine" model. It might be simplistic, but it has the advantage of being concrete.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    > I'm ADHD and I don't buy that "would have made great cavemen, natural movers and shakers" rubbish for a minute. Dude above who was worried he wouldn't have electricity when his g/f came over because he just couldn't handle paying the bill on time? Much closer to the mark. When I got together with my now-wife, she sorted out a water bill I'd been paying on my old place for months because I hadn't gotten around to telling them I'd moved. As a preface, just so you don't think I don't understand what you're talking about—my dad struggled to hold down a job for most of my childhood and finally got diagnosed with ADHD and started medication after he turned 50. I'm intimately familiar with the impairments that ADHD can cause and the real harm that is possible. That, said, what you're describing is exactly the kind of modern overhead that I'm talking about—the modern world imposes a million little things to keep track of that ultimately shouldn't be required, which leaves us chronically falling behind on menial tasks. That leads to anxiety and depression that makes things even worse. In the present reality, medication may be an appropriate patch to quickly restore sanity to people who need it, but I'm unconvinced that we should treat medicating a full 5% of the population for ADHD as a reasonable end goal. There are huge social movements for making accommodations for a portion of the population much smaller than that. There's no reason we can't make substantial changes to accommodate ADHD, especially given that said accommodations would really benefit everyone.
    - flir 3y ago
      I get it, because I was diagnosed very late. The sense of opportunities missed is a killer, I feel for him. It's only lucking into a skillset like ours and a wonderful mother, and then wife that let me pull off a reasonable facsimile of adulting for as long as I did - and it was more like "basic functioning" than "thriving". I've got no problem with the OXO Good Grips argument ("accommodations help everyone"). The only thing I'll take issue with is laying the blame at the feet of the modern world, because I know I'd be just as much of a flake if I lived in a village of 75 people and grew turnips for a living.
- mnk47 3y ago
  His views, biased as they may be, match the scientific consensus and are backed up by decades of research. Many of his Youtube videos are just him going over studies and meta analyses, and explaining the findings in layman's terms. I have read Russell Barkley's book, "Taking Charge of Adult ADHD" where he encourages you to not just trust his words but try to keep up with latest research and discuss things with a professional. I have recently started reading "Driven to Distraction" by the expert you mention, Ed Hallowell, and the content is very similar to Barkley's, it doesn't sound like their views on the disorder are different. In fact, here's a quote from Chapter 1 of Hallowell's book: >In the decades since that time, research has ballooned. Probably the most up-to-date and definitive account of the history and current state of the field is to be found in a book written by one of the great researchers in the area, Russell Barkley; currently in its third edition, his book is entitled, simply, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Maybe their tone is slightly different, but their descriptions of what ADHD is (not a society problem) and the solution they offer (lifestyle changes and medication) are pretty much the same.
  - romeros 3y ago
    >> His views, biased as they may be, match the scientific consensus and are backed up by decades of research. This is the problem. Just because he is an expert doesn't mean ALL of his views are correct. For instance Dr. Russell Barkley believed earlier in his career that having sugar in the diet will make ADHD symptoms worse. Years later after much more research he found out that he was wrong and that people with ADHD should sip in a bit of sugared water to focus better. This is the problem with building a cult around a personality. Science is basically built off of hypothesis. Some of which will be proven wrong by much further research. There is this thing called Constraint-Induced Movement Therapy (CIMT) developed by Edward Taub, a behavioral neuroscientist. There was extreme skepticism and resistance from the established medical and scientific communities. Taub's work challenged the prevailing belief that little could be done to improve function in limbs affected by neurological damage. At the time, it was widely believed that once certain neural pathways were damaged, they could not be repaired or compensated for effectively. Over time, however, through persistent research and clinical trials, CIMT gained evidence-based support and has become a recognized therapy in neurorehabilitation. My point is that we should not build a cult of personality and take everything an "expert" is saying as absolute truth. He is right about many things. He could be wrong about some things as well. That's not a bad thing. That is how progress is made. There is research being done by those who have analyzed nomadic tribes and they found high levels of ADHD like characteristics in those tribe members. The study noted that the traits associated with ADHD, such as impulsivity and a short attention span, which are often seen as challenges in modern structured environments like schools and workplaces, might have been beneficial in the unpredictable and varied challenges of a nomadic lifestyle.

lolinder 3y ago

Care to elaborate, or was your goal just to be insulting for the sake of it? What specifically did I say that was "uninformed nonsense"? What are the facts that contradict what I said? If you can't provide something more substantial than vague insults then you're never going to persuade anyone of anything.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

romeros 3y ago

Dr. Russell Barkley's brother who had ADHD ended up becoming homeless and dying. He is biased and has a negative outlook on ADD. He talks in a very authoritarian manner. You should look up other prominent ADHD experts like Ed Hallowell who have a more positive take. Richard Feynman famously wrote "Science is the Belief in the Ignorance of the Experts". He meant, and explained that "science - a.k.a. research - is in the making, belongs to the (unknown, yet to be discovered) future, while expertise is based on the past, with in-built obsolescence".

flir 3y ago
I'm ADHD and I don't buy that "would have made great cavemen, natural movers and shakers" rubbish for a minute. Dude above who was worried he wouldn't have electricity when his g/f came over because he just couldn't handle paying the bill on time? Much closer to the mark. When I got together with my now-wife, she sorted out a water bill I'd been paying on my old place for months because I hadn't gotten around to telling them I'd moved. My psychiatrist recommended Gabor Maté for what it's worth, but I prefer a really reductionist "it's all about dopamine" model. It might be simplistic, but it has the advantage of being concrete.
- lolinder 3y ago
  > I'm ADHD and I don't buy that "would have made great cavemen, natural movers and shakers" rubbish for a minute. Dude above who was worried he wouldn't have electricity when his g/f came over because he just couldn't handle paying the bill on time? Much closer to the mark. When I got together with my now-wife, she sorted out a water bill I'd been paying on my old place for months because I hadn't gotten around to telling them I'd moved. As a preface, just so you don't think I don't understand what you're talking about—my dad struggled to hold down a job for most of my childhood and finally got diagnosed with ADHD and started medication after he turned 50. I'm intimately familiar with the impairments that ADHD can cause and the real harm that is possible. That, said, what you're describing is exactly the kind of modern overhead that I'm talking about—the modern world imposes a million little things to keep track of that ultimately shouldn't be required, which leaves us chronically falling behind on menial tasks. That leads to anxiety and depression that makes things even worse. In the present reality, medication may be an appropriate patch to quickly restore sanity to people who need it, but I'm unconvinced that we should treat medicating a full 5% of the population for ADHD as a reasonable end goal. There are huge social movements for making accommodations for a portion of the population much smaller than that. There's no reason we can't make substantial changes to accommodate ADHD, especially given that said accommodations would really benefit everyone.
  - flir 3y ago
    I get it, because I was diagnosed very late. The sense of opportunities missed is a killer, I feel for him. It's only lucking into a skillset like ours and a wonderful mother, and then wife that let me pull off a reasonable facsimile of adulting for as long as I did - and it was more like "basic functioning" than "thriving". I've got no problem with the OXO Good Grips argument ("accommodations help everyone"). The only thing I'll take issue with is laying the blame at the feet of the modern world, because I know I'd be just as much of a flake if I lived in a village of 75 people and grew turnips for a living.
mnk47 3y ago
His views, biased as they may be, match the scientific consensus and are backed up by decades of research. Many of his Youtube videos are just him going over studies and meta analyses, and explaining the findings in layman's terms. I have read Russell Barkley's book, "Taking Charge of Adult ADHD" where he encourages you to not just trust his words but try to keep up with latest research and discuss things with a professional. I have recently started reading "Driven to Distraction" by the expert you mention, Ed Hallowell, and the content is very similar to Barkley's, it doesn't sound like their views on the disorder are different. In fact, here's a quote from Chapter 1 of Hallowell's book: >In the decades since that time, research has ballooned. Probably the most up-to-date and definitive account of the history and current state of the field is to be found in a book written by one of the great researchers in the area, Russell Barkley; currently in its third edition, his book is entitled, simply, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Maybe their tone is slightly different, but their descriptions of what ADHD is (not a society problem) and the solution they offer (lifestyle changes and medication) are pretty much the same.
- romeros 3y ago
  >> His views, biased as they may be, match the scientific consensus and are backed up by decades of research. This is the problem. Just because he is an expert doesn't mean ALL of his views are correct. For instance Dr. Russell Barkley believed earlier in his career that having sugar in the diet will make ADHD symptoms worse. Years later after much more research he found out that he was wrong and that people with ADHD should sip in a bit of sugared water to focus better. This is the problem with building a cult around a personality. Science is basically built off of hypothesis. Some of which will be proven wrong by much further research. There is this thing called Constraint-Induced Movement Therapy (CIMT) developed by Edward Taub, a behavioral neuroscientist. There was extreme skepticism and resistance from the established medical and scientific communities. Taub's work challenged the prevailing belief that little could be done to improve function in limbs affected by neurological damage. At the time, it was widely believed that once certain neural pathways were damaged, they could not be repaired or compensated for effectively. Over time, however, through persistent research and clinical trials, CIMT gained evidence-based support and has become a recognized therapy in neurorehabilitation. My point is that we should not build a cult of personality and take everything an "expert" is saying as absolute truth. He is right about many things. He could be wrong about some things as well. That's not a bad thing. That is how progress is made. There is research being done by those who have analyzed nomadic tribes and they found high levels of ADHD like characteristics in those tribe members. The study noted that the traits associated with ADHD, such as impulsivity and a short attention span, which are often seen as challenges in modern structured environments like schools and workplaces, might have been beneficial in the unpredictable and varied challenges of a nomadic lifestyle.