3 ms·

> more for trying to appeal to an audience of the localizer's peers Or for people who aren't already familiar with the culture. For instance if you're translat

> more for trying to appeal to an audience of the localizer's peers Or for people who aren't already familiar with the culture. For instance if you're translating a romance novel or otome game (romance game for women) you'd want to localize the body language it describes men using, because what Japanese women like, American women think is offputting and rapey, and a romance story doesn't work as a romance if it turns the reader off. > Beyond that official translations often don't come with honorific This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. (Last week in public in Japan I heard a woman call a boy "Haru-chan", something that supposedly never happens.) Actually, if audiences expect this it means translators have to start translating some honorifics you don't know into the ones you do. You probably know さん but not 氏 or ちゃま.

charcircuit 3y ago
>This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. I can, but believe what you want. I don't have a need to prove it to others. >Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. This is plain wrong as there are scenes where honorifics are significant. Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. Characters change the honorific they use with each other. Characters talk about what honorifics people are using. >something that supposedly never happens. Says who? >if audiences expect this it means translators have to start translating some honorifics Personally, I don't think they need to translate them. The actual meaning of it is usually not important and if it is it could be left up to the viewer or put in a TL note. An exception to this is certain usages of 殿, but this is usually handled by changing the phrasing of the rest of the sentence. >You probably know さん but not 氏 or ちゃま I do know them.
- astrange 3y ago
  > Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. That's just a question of character voice. You can also say a translation is inaccurate because in the original the characters were speaking Japanese and now they're speaking English. But as they say, it can't be helped. You just need to be sure readers can still distinguish who's speaking in the result by making people sound different. > Says who? Most language learning material and anime fan common knowledge? Even Wikipedia, though it has some caveats. And of course there's real life situations where people call girls -kun as well.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >That's just a question of character voice. Fair, but I do feel that removing it is removing a social dynamic that can not simply be mapped just to the voice of a character. >Most language learning material. It happens in anime too, so that material is wrong and off topic from what was being discussed.
Dalewyn 3y ago
>This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. As a Japanese man, you are dead wrong. Using the wrong honorific or inappropriately not using one at all can be tantamount to shouting "fuck you" to someone here in the Anglosphere, an insult and offence of among the highest order. >I heard a woman call a boy "Haru-chan", something that supposedly never happens. That is mundane to a fault.
- astrange 3y ago
  > Using the wrong honorific or inappropriately not using one at all can be tantamount to shouting "fuck you" to someone here in the Anglosphere, an insult and offence of among the highest order. I didn't mean it like that! I meant when they're being used normally and not meant to stand out. They're normal pleasantries and a bit of character voice, and both those things can be represented in English. America isn't a honorific-heavy society, but there are certainly people who get offended if you don't call them Dr., etc, but this is rarely a plot point in a TV show and I don't think it's used that often in manga/anime either. Though I don't find it that bad. My English copy of Count of Monte Cristo does have French honorifics (it uses M/Mme instead of Mr/Mrs) and that doesn't look weird. Japanese stories set in Britain also seem to like using British titles like "Milord" although, um, they don't really do it right. Meanwhile I've seen subtitles for clips of Japanese vtubers where they don't put /enough/ swearing in. First one I ever saw had Pekora saying something was 気狂い, which they definitely didn't translate right. (Means "crazy" but it's a really bad word, kind of like "retarded".)
numpad0 3y ago
IMO, this is becoming quickly into minor points thanks to VTuber explosion. I can't describe my shock when I first witnessed "the brat needs correction" cliche, used correctly, collecting upvotes on Reddit. Just few years ago it was at best off context ara-aras.

charcircuit 3y ago

>This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. I can, but believe what you want. I don't have a need to prove it to others. >Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. This is plain wrong as there are scenes where honorifics are significant. Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. Characters change the honorific they use with each other. Characters talk about what honorifics people are using. >something that supposedly never happens. Says who? >if audiences expect this it means translators have to start translating some honorifics Personally, I don't think they need to translate them. The actual meaning of it is usually not important and if it is it could be left up to the viewer or put in a TL note. An exception to this is certain usages of 殿, but this is usually handled by changing the phrasing of the rest of the sentence. >You probably know さん but not 氏 or ちゃま I do know them.

astrange 3y ago
> Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. That's just a question of character voice. You can also say a translation is inaccurate because in the original the characters were speaking Japanese and now they're speaking English. But as they say, it can't be helped. You just need to be sure readers can still distinguish who's speaking in the result by making people sound different. > Says who? Most language learning material and anime fan common knowledge? Even Wikipedia, though it has some caveats. And of course there's real life situations where people call girls -kun as well.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  >That's just a question of character voice. Fair, but I do feel that removing it is removing a social dynamic that can not simply be mapped just to the voice of a character. >Most language learning material. It happens in anime too, so that material is wrong and off topic from what was being discussed.

Dalewyn 3y ago

>This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. As a Japanese man, you are dead wrong. Using the wrong honorific or inappropriately not using one at all can be tantamount to shouting "fuck you" to someone here in the Anglosphere, an insult and offence of among the highest order. >I heard a woman call a boy "Haru-chan", something that supposedly never happens. That is mundane to a fault.

astrange 3y ago
> Using the wrong honorific or inappropriately not using one at all can be tantamount to shouting "fuck you" to someone here in the Anglosphere, an insult and offence of among the highest order. I didn't mean it like that! I meant when they're being used normally and not meant to stand out. They're normal pleasantries and a bit of character voice, and both those things can be represented in English. America isn't a honorific-heavy society, but there are certainly people who get offended if you don't call them Dr., etc, but this is rarely a plot point in a TV show and I don't think it's used that often in manga/anime either. Though I don't find it that bad. My English copy of Count of Monte Cristo does have French honorifics (it uses M/Mme instead of Mr/Mrs) and that doesn't look weird. Japanese stories set in Britain also seem to like using British titles like "Milord" although, um, they don't really do it right. Meanwhile I've seen subtitles for clips of Japanese vtubers where they don't put /enough/ swearing in. First one I ever saw had Pekora saying something was 気狂い, which they definitely didn't translate right. (Means "crazy" but it's a really bad word, kind of like "retarded".)

numpad0 3y ago

IMO, this is becoming quickly into minor points thanks to VTuber explosion. I can't describe my shock when I first witnessed "the brat needs correction" cliche, used correctly, collecting upvotes on Reddit. Just few years ago it was at best off context ara-aras.