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Employees also do not have a right to any particular career. That's nice that people have a dream to make anime for a living. I hope they get to realize it. But

by imgabe 3y ago

Employees also do not have a right to any particular career. That's nice that people have a dream to make anime for a living. I hope they get to realize it. But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want. If you can't make enough money doing a certain job, maybe go get a different job then.

Goronmon 3y ago
I'm not convinced that workers shouldn't have any rights or protections. That sounds like a pretty extreme viewpoint. Or just one coming from an employer's perspective where I can see why you might desire no limits on treatments of workers.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - wyre 3y ago
    GP says in comment to a post about regulations and paying a minimum wage to workers which I interpret they mean certain workers don’t have the right to worker protections because they work/want to work a sought-after job.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  It is quite common in highly capitalist societies, workers should be thankful they get a couple of pennies if at all. They should learn to be hard workers, saving all the penies they can, never be sick, and some day if they don't die before it, living the dream of being their own boss.
kiba 3y ago
Nobody has a right to a business to exist or any particular job exist and yet nonetheless there are the rules of the game that people must abide by to make society works.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want Sure we do, we call it minimum wage. Of course the ceiling is unlimited but there are defined floors. There are just plenty of loopholes and a lot of off the clock overtime that complicates things. Not just in anime but most of the Japanese workforce. That's a whole other topic to discuss, though.
- gruez 3y ago
  >>But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want >Sure we do, we call it minimum wage. Of course the ceiling is unlimited but there are defined floors. A minimum wage doesn't guarantee "a particular wage". It only guarantees that if an exchange of money for labor occurs, that the price paid will meet the minimum. However, it doesn't guarantee that the transaction will occur, and if you're unemployed your "wage" is arguably $0.
Brian_K_White 3y ago
There is no job that is ok to pay nothing or as good as nothing. It doesn't matter what "career". If a job needs doing by a human at all, then that human does indeed deserve a reasonable baseline which allows them to exist and even do so with reasonable dignity. As time goes on and jobs are done by machines, and there are fewer and fewer jobs that require a human, then the output and ownership of those machines simply should one way or another be distributed enough to have the same effect. All they have to do to earn that is not be being a criminal right at that moment. And this extends to people who can't do anything obviously productive too. Even a sick old grandma doing nothing but telling stories to kids for one hour a week is productive, and we have no excuse not to provide for even the ones who can't even do that. Because even if "the Earth is a life boat", we don't exist in an environment of hardship with fixed and insufficient resources where there just isn't enough food and building material and energy to go around. There simply is no excuse for the way we treat some people. They didn't do anything wrong enough to deserve it, and it is not forced by physical limits. Talking about what value someone provides to earn their existence is just a way to rationalize taking advantage of others. None of this equates to "I will be forced to spend 20 years learning medicine to give my time away for free to bums!" But even if it did, why is that a bad thing exactly? Because it's what, like slavery? You mean, slavery is bad after all?
- imgabe 3y ago
  These are not slaves. They are free to leave. Nobody is forcing them to work at this job for so little pay. There are plenty of other jobs that pay better. They should go get one of those if they want more money. If enough of them did, the supply of animators would fall and pay would increase.
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    It doesn't matter if "they are free to leave". There is still no excuse for the employer to pay less than a livable amount for whatever work they get. If it's 500 freelancers competing for the equivalent of 2 1-day jobs, the employer still has to pay something reasonable for a days work to 2 of them, and nothing to the rest. Or the granularity can be smaller like per hour, but the per hour rate is still some minimum that actually works. It doesn't matter what the powerless individual worker is ostensibly "free" to do.

by imgabe 3y ago

Goronmon 3y ago

I'm not convinced that workers shouldn't have any rights or protections. That sounds like a pretty extreme viewpoint. Or just one coming from an employer's perspective where I can see why you might desire no limits on treatments of workers.

ekianjo 3y ago
[flagged]
- wyre 3y ago
  GP says in comment to a post about regulations and paying a minimum wage to workers which I interpret they mean certain workers don’t have the right to worker protections because they work/want to work a sought-after job.
pjmlp 3y ago
It is quite common in highly capitalist societies, workers should be thankful they get a couple of pennies if at all. They should learn to be hard workers, saving all the penies they can, never be sick, and some day if they don't die before it, living the dream of being their own boss.

kiba 3y ago

Nobody has a right to a business to exist or any particular job exist and yet nonetheless there are the rules of the game that people must abide by to make society works.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want Sure we do, we call it minimum wage. Of course the ceiling is unlimited but there are defined floors. There are just plenty of loopholes and a lot of off the clock overtime that complicates things. Not just in anime but most of the Japanese workforce. That's a whole other topic to discuss, though.

gruez 3y ago
>>But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want >Sure we do, we call it minimum wage. Of course the ceiling is unlimited but there are defined floors. A minimum wage doesn't guarantee "a particular wage". It only guarantees that if an exchange of money for labor occurs, that the price paid will meet the minimum. However, it doesn't guarantee that the transaction will occur, and if you're unemployed your "wage" is arguably $0.

Brian_K_White 3y ago

There is no job that is ok to pay nothing or as good as nothing. It doesn't matter what "career". If a job needs doing by a human at all, then that human does indeed deserve a reasonable baseline which allows them to exist and even do so with reasonable dignity. As time goes on and jobs are done by machines, and there are fewer and fewer jobs that require a human, then the output and ownership of those machines simply should one way or another be distributed enough to have the same effect. All they have to do to earn that is not be being a criminal right at that moment. And this extends to people who can't do anything obviously productive too. Even a sick old grandma doing nothing but telling stories to kids for one hour a week is productive, and we have no excuse not to provide for even the ones who can't even do that. Because even if "the Earth is a life boat", we don't exist in an environment of hardship with fixed and insufficient resources where there just isn't enough food and building material and energy to go around. There simply is no excuse for the way we treat some people. They didn't do anything wrong enough to deserve it, and it is not forced by physical limits. Talking about what value someone provides to earn their existence is just a way to rationalize taking advantage of others. None of this equates to "I will be forced to spend 20 years learning medicine to give my time away for free to bums!" But even if it did, why is that a bad thing exactly? Because it's what, like slavery? You mean, slavery is bad after all?

imgabe 3y ago
These are not slaves. They are free to leave. Nobody is forcing them to work at this job for so little pay. There are plenty of other jobs that pay better. They should go get one of those if they want more money. If enough of them did, the supply of animators would fall and pay would increase.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  It doesn't matter if "they are free to leave". There is still no excuse for the employer to pay less than a livable amount for whatever work they get. If it's 500 freelancers competing for the equivalent of 2 1-day jobs, the employer still has to pay something reasonable for a days work to 2 of them, and nothing to the rest. Or the granularity can be smaller like per hour, but the per hour rate is still some minimum that actually works. It doesn't matter what the powerless individual worker is ostensibly "free" to do.