4 ms·

I just learned recently there’s a lot of drama of “localizers” blatantly mistranslating or inserting their own words to push their ideologies.

astrange 3y ago
You learned nonsense right-wing propaganda.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  Even so, it is true and does happen. Though I suspect it is less about pushing an ideology and more for trying to appeal to an audience of the localizer's peers. Either way the end result is that it repulsed a demographic of the distribution platform's target audience. Beyond that official translations often don't come with honorific, don't bother explaining puns, are not literal translations, try to replace a Japanese concept with a western one, and other annoying things. I would rather there not be an official translation or localization process, but since non Japanese streaming platforms want to constantly expand their business no matter what, the desires of hardcore anime fans will not be respected as normal people outnumber us, so bad subs will continue to be produced.
  - xboxnolifes 3y ago
    > I would rather there not be an official translation or localization process Localization isn't just bad subs though. Localization is sometimes unavoidable due to differences in language and the cultural usage of the language. Not everything can be directly translated, as that's not how languages work. Sometimes the only way to avoid localization is to not translate, and then it's no longer a translation.
    - astrange 3y ago
      Other reasons to do it are: * translating a joke "literally" makes it no longer a joke and so no longer an authentic translation * the original creators want their work to sell to people who weren't already prepared to like it
  - astrange 3y ago
    > more for trying to appeal to an audience of the localizer's peers Or for people who aren't already familiar with the culture. For instance if you're translating a romance novel or otome game (romance game for women) you'd want to localize the body language it describes men using, because what Japanese women like, American women think is offputting and rapey, and a romance story doesn't work as a romance if it turns the reader off. > Beyond that official translations often don't come with honorific This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. (Last week in public in Japan I heard a woman call a boy "Haru-chan", something that supposedly never happens.) Actually, if audiences expect this it means translators have to start translating some honorifics you don't know into the ones you do. You probably know さん but not 氏 or ちゃま.
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      >This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. I can, but believe what you want. I don't have a need to prove it to others. >Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. This is plain wrong as there are scenes where honorifics are significant. Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. Characters change the honorific they use with each other. Characters talk about what honorifics people are using. >something that supposedly never happens. Says who? >if audiences expect this it means translators have to start translating some honorifics Personally, I don't think they need to translate them. The actual meaning of it is usually not important and if it is it could be left up to the viewer or put in a TL note. An exception to this is certain usages of 殿, but this is usually handled by changing the phrasing of the rest of the sentence. >You probably know さん but not 氏 or ちゃま I do know them.
      - astrange 3y ago
        > Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. That's just a question of character voice. You can also say a translation is inaccurate because in the original the characters were speaking Japanese and now they're speaking English. But as they say, it can't be helped. You just need to be sure readers can still distinguish who's speaking in the result by making people sound different. > Says who? Most language learning material and anime fan common knowledge? Even Wikipedia, though it has some caveats. And of course there's real life situations where people call girls -kun as well.
  - nemothekid 3y ago
    >but since non Japanese streaming platforms want to constantly expand their business no matter what This exact same conversation was happening on anime forum boards 20-30 years ago before Japanese streaming platforms knew they were people interested in watching their content overseas. There are gigabytes of forum posts of_fan produced content_ arguing over whether honorifics should be included, if puns should be explained with a "TL note", references to japanese history, etc. Fansubs ultimately ended up on coalescing on what official subs do today (before official subs even existed), so I don't believe they are doing it because of corporate greed. People prefer somewhat localized content. Fan subs killed most honorifics and translation notes before anyone made a dime doing so.
    - astrange 3y ago
      There's a TV show translation group called TV-Nihon that actually does try to preserve everything as hard as possible. Everyone makes fun of them because their subtitles have random Japanese words scattered all over. And since Kamen Rider is written for small children it's not like the story is actually hard to understand.
- asylteltine 3y ago
  Which part is propaganda? Are you saying it’s not true? Because it is, there’s literal evidence of it. Just because their actions align with you politically doesn’t mean it’s fake news
  - astrange 3y ago
    It often isn't true, they're showing screenshots of a fan translation or claiming it's official, or showing edits mandated by the Japanese side (for legal reasons etc) and claiming they aren't approved, or they just think anything using an English idiom is an incorrect translation because they have bad writing test or are literally ESL speakers and don't know English.

astrange 3y ago

You learned nonsense right-wing propaganda.

charcircuit 3y ago
Even so, it is true and does happen. Though I suspect it is less about pushing an ideology and more for trying to appeal to an audience of the localizer's peers. Either way the end result is that it repulsed a demographic of the distribution platform's target audience. Beyond that official translations often don't come with honorific, don't bother explaining puns, are not literal translations, try to replace a Japanese concept with a western one, and other annoying things. I would rather there not be an official translation or localization process, but since non Japanese streaming platforms want to constantly expand their business no matter what, the desires of hardcore anime fans will not be respected as normal people outnumber us, so bad subs will continue to be produced.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  > I would rather there not be an official translation or localization process Localization isn't just bad subs though. Localization is sometimes unavoidable due to differences in language and the cultural usage of the language. Not everything can be directly translated, as that's not how languages work. Sometimes the only way to avoid localization is to not translate, and then it's no longer a translation.
  - astrange 3y ago
    Other reasons to do it are: * translating a joke "literally" makes it no longer a joke and so no longer an authentic translation * the original creators want their work to sell to people who weren't already prepared to like it
- astrange 3y ago
  > more for trying to appeal to an audience of the localizer's peers Or for people who aren't already familiar with the culture. For instance if you're translating a romance novel or otome game (romance game for women) you'd want to localize the body language it describes men using, because what Japanese women like, American women think is offputting and rapey, and a romance story doesn't work as a romance if it turns the reader off. > Beyond that official translations often don't come with honorific This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. (Last week in public in Japan I heard a woman call a boy "Haru-chan", something that supposedly never happens.) Actually, if audiences expect this it means translators have to start translating some honorifics you don't know into the ones you do. You probably know さん but not 氏 or ちゃま.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >This is a giveaway you don't speak Japanese. I can, but believe what you want. I don't have a need to prove it to others. >Honorifics are not actually important or meaning-bearing. This is plain wrong as there are scenes where honorifics are significant. Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. Characters change the honorific they use with each other. Characters talk about what honorifics people are using. >something that supposedly never happens. Says who? >if audiences expect this it means translators have to start translating some honorifics Personally, I don't think they need to translate them. The actual meaning of it is usually not important and if it is it could be left up to the viewer or put in a TL note. An exception to this is certain usages of 殿, but this is usually handled by changing the phrasing of the rest of the sentence. >You probably know さん but not 氏 or ちゃま I do know them.
    - astrange 3y ago
      > Who uses (or doesn't use) which honorific with which people is important. That's just a question of character voice. You can also say a translation is inaccurate because in the original the characters were speaking Japanese and now they're speaking English. But as they say, it can't be helped. You just need to be sure readers can still distinguish who's speaking in the result by making people sound different. > Says who? Most language learning material and anime fan common knowledge? Even Wikipedia, though it has some caveats. And of course there's real life situations where people call girls -kun as well.
- nemothekid 3y ago
  >but since non Japanese streaming platforms want to constantly expand their business no matter what This exact same conversation was happening on anime forum boards 20-30 years ago before Japanese streaming platforms knew they were people interested in watching their content overseas. There are gigabytes of forum posts of_fan produced content_ arguing over whether honorifics should be included, if puns should be explained with a "TL note", references to japanese history, etc. Fansubs ultimately ended up on coalescing on what official subs do today (before official subs even existed), so I don't believe they are doing it because of corporate greed. People prefer somewhat localized content. Fan subs killed most honorifics and translation notes before anyone made a dime doing so.
  - astrange 3y ago
    There's a TV show translation group called TV-Nihon that actually does try to preserve everything as hard as possible. Everyone makes fun of them because their subtitles have random Japanese words scattered all over. And since Kamen Rider is written for small children it's not like the story is actually hard to understand.
asylteltine 3y ago
Which part is propaganda? Are you saying it’s not true? Because it is, there’s literal evidence of it. Just because their actions align with you politically doesn’t mean it’s fake news
- astrange 3y ago
  It often isn't true, they're showing screenshots of a fan translation or claiming it's official, or showing edits mandated by the Japanese side (for legal reasons etc) and claiming they aren't approved, or they just think anything using an English idiom is an incorrect translation because they have bad writing test or are literally ESL speakers and don't know English.