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We as a species are surely not short on open space. "Wasting it" in this case means the cheapest possible utility-scale solar energy installations, which is wh

by wffurr 3y ago

We as a species are surely not short on open space. "Wasting it" in this case means the cheapest possible utility-scale solar energy installations, which is what we need to not just displace all fossil fuel usage but lead to a future of energy abundance rather than shortage.

jjav 3y ago
> We as a species are surely not short on open space. There is a lot of unused open space way out far from cities. Electricity suffers from transmission losses, the more distance the more loss. The ideal place to put that panel is on my roof which is just a few dozen feet from where it's going to be consumed. That'll be a lot more efficient than having it 500 miles away in the desert.
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  A lot? Try a few percent. That's what bad transmission costs. Compare that to the additional costs in actual dollars and cents of multiplying your install costs by the number of installs required to achieve the required mwh. Its not even close.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Generation is 44% of an electric utility's operating costs: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_03.html https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_03.html You're confusing the line item called "transmission" with the concept that the electric utility's entire operations expense is in service of operating the power grid and all of that gets included in the price per kWh whenever you buy power through the grid. A property owner who is installing their own solar and consuming the output themselves can avoid the other 56% of those costs. Which is well worth a one-time labor cost.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Most of the cost of solar is now the installation cost - ie. labour. Roof solar uses a lot more labour, partly because roofs are inaccessible and need to seal, but also because roofs are smaller than fields. A typical home solar install might take 3 guys a day to do - for maybe 6 kilowatts. A typical field install can probably install 60 kilowatts with the same 3 guys in a day.

by wffurr 3y ago

jjav 3y ago

> We as a species are surely not short on open space. There is a lot of unused open space way out far from cities. Electricity suffers from transmission losses, the more distance the more loss. The ideal place to put that panel is on my roof which is just a few dozen feet from where it's going to be consumed. That'll be a lot more efficient than having it 500 miles away in the desert.

idiotsecant 3y ago
A lot? Try a few percent. That's what bad transmission costs. Compare that to the additional costs in actual dollars and cents of multiplying your install costs by the number of installs required to achieve the required mwh. Its not even close.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Generation is 44% of an electric utility's operating costs: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_03.html https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_03.html You're confusing the line item called "transmission" with the concept that the electric utility's entire operations expense is in service of operating the power grid and all of that gets included in the price per kWh whenever you buy power through the grid. A property owner who is installing their own solar and consuming the output themselves can avoid the other 56% of those costs. Which is well worth a one-time labor cost.
londons_explore 3y ago
Most of the cost of solar is now the installation cost - ie. labour. Roof solar uses a lot more labour, partly because roofs are inaccessible and need to seal, but also because roofs are smaller than fields. A typical home solar install might take 3 guys a day to do - for maybe 6 kilowatts. A typical field install can probably install 60 kilowatts with the same 3 guys in a day.