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> This is just factually wrong. Factually wrong? Are you saying that Musk designs and builds the rockets? > Musk has been leading and controlling SpaceX for l

> This is just factually wrong. Factually wrong? Are you saying that Musk designs and builds the rockets? > Musk has been leading and controlling SpaceX for literally 20 years now. I think his behavior has very clearly changed over the past 20 years. There's a theory the pandemic did something to him, but I suspect it predates that. > Being the most successful space company in history. Having the most rocket launches, the biggest rocket, the most reliable engine, the most advanced engine, the most sats and the most launched human isn't good enough for you? Hasn't even deliver on the most complex project in human history. What a loser. I didn't call him a loser, and I'm not sure why you're equating criticism with an ad-hominem attack. I genuinely think he is grappling with mental health issues, though it doesn't excuse his behavior. Anyway, I don't think it's relevant to dig into SpaceX's engineering any more than Tesla's battery tech. If I hire a contractor to renovate my bathroom, and the results are good, is it because I had a hand in it? For all you know, I could have changed my mind about the tiles halfway through and demanded they start over, making the project harder than it needed to be. I could have hurled abuse at the laborer and the stiffed him for the bill. > Musk is fine, he lives on, he does the same things he has been doing for 20+ years, SpaceX and Tesla continue to do fine and he is continuing to lead them. Howard Hughes' companies did fine through his mental decline and death. > Twitter, exists and works fine. If that is 'unraveling' then I don't think you know what that words means. Twitter has lost its only major source of revenue, most of the people I followed there have moved on, and it's facing so many lawsuits that I've lost count. That doesn't seem fine. The important detail is that all of this was self inflicted. The company wasn't doing great, but it was chugging along. He grabbed the wheel and drove it straight into a wall. > Essentially calling somebody mentally ill because you don't like how they handle a company is really is more a reflection on you not Musk. I think that when someone acts mentally ill, they tend to be mentally ill. The only counterargument seems to boil down to, "But he has a lot of money."

panick21_ 3y ago
> Factually wrong? Are you saying that Musk designs and builds the rockets? Yes he did help to design and build the rockets. By literally any definition. His impact on the final products of SpaceX is clearly larger then anybody else at SpaceX. And if you actually read the books on the topic, listen to talks with people who worked with him rather then some anti-space socialists on twitter. > I think his behavior has very clearly changed over the past 20 years. Many people change over 20 years ... but he didn't really fundamentally. Buying twitter came at the end of years of talking about speech and so on. > If I hire a contractor to renovate my bathroom, and the results are good, is it because I had a hand in it? Containing with the nonsense of 'he is just the finance' guy. Again, just nonsense. Honestly, inform yourself. > most of the people I followed there have moved on Its called selection bias. > and it's facing so many lawsuits that I've lost count Welcome to america. > but it was chugging along. And it still is. > He grabbed the wheel and drove it straight into a wall. How about we judge the company 5 or 10 years after he takes control. Tesla was a shitshow when he took over as well. Twitter will likely never have the absurd valuation it had before, but to claim it 'drove into a wall' just isn't accurate. > I think that when someone acts mentally ill, they tend to be mentally ill. Again, I love to know what he has actually done that constitutes 'act mentally ill'. You can point to lots of things that make him not very like-able, but those aren't the same thing. Literally your only argument seems to be 'twitter is now worth less then when he bought it'. So you think any company that gets acquired and doesn't justify its value means the CEO who bought it is mentally ill? Was Balmer mentally ill when he bought Nokia? But go to now that you are professional therapist who can make medical diagnosis. > The only counterargument seems to boil down to, "But he has a lot of money." That's literally zero % of the argument but I guess that is what you need to tell yourself for your reasoning to make sense. He is rich because he is rich, and he is crazy because he wastes money on things you don't find important.
- sandofsky 3y ago
  > Yes he did help to design and build the rockets. By literally any definition. His impact on the final products of SpaceX is clearly larger then anybody else at SpaceX. Do you think he had a greater impact than Tom Mueller? I'd expect the guy who was lead on the TR-106, and already developing liquid-fueled rocket engines, had more technical impact at a space company than a guy who worked in e-payments. > And if you actually read the books on the topic, listen to talks with people who worked with him rather then some anti-space socialists on twitter. I find it fascinating that you use "books" in the plural, like a totally normal person would read multiple books on Elon Musk. From my survey of the material, Elon Musk books fail to consider anything he does from a critical perspective. Perhaps that's a requirement of getting access to interviews, or perhaps the authors know their audience are parasocial fans. Are there any books that you recommend that take a critical look? > How about we judge the company 5 or 10 years after he takes control. Tesla was a shitshow when he took over as well. Was it? It seems Tesla was any early-stage company. When he took over Twitter, it was already making revenue and even reached profitability in 2019. I don't understand the endgame of driving advertisers away. > Again, I love to know what he has actually done that constitutes 'act mentally ill'. It's hard to pick just one, but I'd start with the Twitter acquisition. Specifically, the part where he felt insulted by the CEO, so he initiated a hostile takeover. Then he put together a contract that he couldn't back out of. Then he spent much of the year trying to back out of that contract by just making up silly excuses. Following the transition, he has cultivated an image and a platform that no sane advertiser would touch with a ten foot pole. Would a person grounded in reality tell a room full of advertisers, "Go fuck yourself," and then pause for applause that never come? Then there's all the behavior in his personal life. I'm an open minded person, so if you want to have children with two women at the same time... and everyone is a consulting adult... good luck? But not telling both women what was going on seems unwell. If you described this behavior to someone while leaving out the names, they'd probably describe it as self-destructive. > But go to now that you are professional therapist who can make medical diagnosis. It doesn't take a medical professional to watch bizarre episodes by Kanye West, Charlie Sheen or Britney Spears, and know something is up. I won't venture to say Elon is bipolar or has a drug problem, but if the news came out, most people would react with, "Sounds right."
slowhadoken 3y ago
I’m confused. Are you in the business of rocketry? I mean are you speaking from personal experience as a member of the aerospace industry?
- sandofsky 3y ago
  Rocketry, no, but Twitter, yes. Watching him go in and do the dumbest imaginable things, then make up excuses for his stupid decisions, then watching fans buy those excuses without an ounce of critical thinking… well, it raises a lot of questions in my head about his other ventures.
  - slowhadoken 3y ago
    So you don’t like his opinions therefore he’s dumb but he founded a company that designs, manufactures and launches advanced rockets and spacecraft. And you have no personal experience in aerospace. You don’t have to like him but do you see what I’m saying?
    - sandofsky 3y ago
      I said he made the dumbest possible decisions at Twitter. If you disagree, please explain the benefits of destroying revenue by driving away advertisers. What I see is a mountain of evidence you can't argue with, so your only hope is an appeal to authority.
      - slowhadoken 3y ago
        And around we go lol
        sandofsky 3y ago
        I think I asked a pretty straightforward question, but I’ll try to make it clearer: can you explain why a mentally-well person would drive away advertisers at a company he just acquired, destroying the majority of its revenue?

panick21_ 3y ago

> Factually wrong? Are you saying that Musk designs and builds the rockets? Yes he did help to design and build the rockets. By literally any definition. His impact on the final products of SpaceX is clearly larger then anybody else at SpaceX. And if you actually read the books on the topic, listen to talks with people who worked with him rather then some anti-space socialists on twitter. > I think his behavior has very clearly changed over the past 20 years. Many people change over 20 years ... but he didn't really fundamentally. Buying twitter came at the end of years of talking about speech and so on. > If I hire a contractor to renovate my bathroom, and the results are good, is it because I had a hand in it? Containing with the nonsense of 'he is just the finance' guy. Again, just nonsense. Honestly, inform yourself. > most of the people I followed there have moved on Its called selection bias. > and it's facing so many lawsuits that I've lost count Welcome to america. > but it was chugging along. And it still is. > He grabbed the wheel and drove it straight into a wall. How about we judge the company 5 or 10 years after he takes control. Tesla was a shitshow when he took over as well. Twitter will likely never have the absurd valuation it had before, but to claim it 'drove into a wall' just isn't accurate. > I think that when someone acts mentally ill, they tend to be mentally ill. Again, I love to know what he has actually done that constitutes 'act mentally ill'. You can point to lots of things that make him not very like-able, but those aren't the same thing. Literally your only argument seems to be 'twitter is now worth less then when he bought it'. So you think any company that gets acquired and doesn't justify its value means the CEO who bought it is mentally ill? Was Balmer mentally ill when he bought Nokia? But go to now that you are professional therapist who can make medical diagnosis. > The only counterargument seems to boil down to, "But he has a lot of money." That's literally zero % of the argument but I guess that is what you need to tell yourself for your reasoning to make sense. He is rich because he is rich, and he is crazy because he wastes money on things you don't find important.

sandofsky 3y ago
> Yes he did help to design and build the rockets. By literally any definition. His impact on the final products of SpaceX is clearly larger then anybody else at SpaceX. Do you think he had a greater impact than Tom Mueller? I'd expect the guy who was lead on the TR-106, and already developing liquid-fueled rocket engines, had more technical impact at a space company than a guy who worked in e-payments. > And if you actually read the books on the topic, listen to talks with people who worked with him rather then some anti-space socialists on twitter. I find it fascinating that you use "books" in the plural, like a totally normal person would read multiple books on Elon Musk. From my survey of the material, Elon Musk books fail to consider anything he does from a critical perspective. Perhaps that's a requirement of getting access to interviews, or perhaps the authors know their audience are parasocial fans. Are there any books that you recommend that take a critical look? > How about we judge the company 5 or 10 years after he takes control. Tesla was a shitshow when he took over as well. Was it? It seems Tesla was any early-stage company. When he took over Twitter, it was already making revenue and even reached profitability in 2019. I don't understand the endgame of driving advertisers away. > Again, I love to know what he has actually done that constitutes 'act mentally ill'. It's hard to pick just one, but I'd start with the Twitter acquisition. Specifically, the part where he felt insulted by the CEO, so he initiated a hostile takeover. Then he put together a contract that he couldn't back out of. Then he spent much of the year trying to back out of that contract by just making up silly excuses. Following the transition, he has cultivated an image and a platform that no sane advertiser would touch with a ten foot pole. Would a person grounded in reality tell a room full of advertisers, "Go fuck yourself," and then pause for applause that never come? Then there's all the behavior in his personal life. I'm an open minded person, so if you want to have children with two women at the same time... and everyone is a consulting adult... good luck? But not telling both women what was going on seems unwell. If you described this behavior to someone while leaving out the names, they'd probably describe it as self-destructive. > But go to now that you are professional therapist who can make medical diagnosis. It doesn't take a medical professional to watch bizarre episodes by Kanye West, Charlie Sheen or Britney Spears, and know something is up. I won't venture to say Elon is bipolar or has a drug problem, but if the news came out, most people would react with, "Sounds right."

slowhadoken 3y ago

I’m confused. Are you in the business of rocketry? I mean are you speaking from personal experience as a member of the aerospace industry?

sandofsky 3y ago
Rocketry, no, but Twitter, yes. Watching him go in and do the dumbest imaginable things, then make up excuses for his stupid decisions, then watching fans buy those excuses without an ounce of critical thinking… well, it raises a lot of questions in my head about his other ventures.
- slowhadoken 3y ago
  So you don’t like his opinions therefore he’s dumb but he founded a company that designs, manufactures and launches advanced rockets and spacecraft. And you have no personal experience in aerospace. You don’t have to like him but do you see what I’m saying?
  - sandofsky 3y ago
    I said he made the dumbest possible decisions at Twitter. If you disagree, please explain the benefits of destroying revenue by driving away advertisers. What I see is a mountain of evidence you can't argue with, so your only hope is an appeal to authority.
    - slowhadoken 3y ago
      And around we go lol
      - sandofsky 3y ago
        I think I asked a pretty straightforward question, but I’ll try to make it clearer: can you explain why a mentally-well person would drive away advertisers at a company he just acquired, destroying the majority of its revenue?