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I've tried these before. They use directed air onto your hands hence the backpack. They do a pretty okay job at providing a sense of texture. So virtual objects
by bane 3y ago
I've tried these before. They use directed air onto your hands hence the backpack. They do a pretty okay job at providing a sense of texture. So virtual objects have a surface feeling, but still no physical shape or resistance. The demo has a bunch of feely textured objects you can handle: steam, dripping water, a cat, a rope, etc. You still have to pretend that you "stop" at the volume of whatever object as the system still doesn't provide any physical resistance. Some of the demo surfaces were kind of "meh" but a few, like the rope felt spot on to what a rough hemp rope being touched through a glove might feel like.
To me the biggest problem outside of that was that the system can't really provide the sense of touch of a static object. Like resting your hands on the thorns of a cactus. Because it uses streams of air bubbles, it has to be a continuously changing surface, so rubbing your hand or finger on something works better.
Is it more immersive? Yeah, to a point. I personally think that a feedback system that let you feel the volume or shape of gripped objects would be better, but these are very hard problems.
- jncfhnb 3y agoPretty much impossible problem imo. One can imagine fanciful solutions, but people tend to get hurt in VR space. It would be very, very hard not injure the humans in meat space with tech that is sufficiently rigid to let them also physically interact with vr objects.
- withinboredom 3y agoI'm reminded of the description in "Rainbow End?" where the guy doesn't have a VR setup yet and sees people reaching out and touching shapes held in the air by mechanical arms. Basically, there are 'self-arranging blobs' that arrive 'just in time' to your interaction, changing their tactile surface to reflect what you expect. The user sees none of this, and only what they see in their interface. I can't imagine it working perfectly. Say, pulling a book out of a shelf should have exactly zero resistance (other than the force of gravity pulling the book down). Having near zero latency between action and the 'tactile interface' moving in exactly the right direction would be a very hard problem...
- jncfhnb 3y agoOk now you’re running and your foot clips a rock. Think fast machine. Does a blob clip your foot and cause you to fall irl?
- withinboredom 3y agoFor some people, does the blob even need to be there for them to trip?
- jncfhnb 3y agoNo, but there’s a big difference between the machine causing you to fall with force vs just falling on otherwise flat ground normally.
- caslon 3y agoYes, it should. That would be amazing.
- vlovich123 3y agoNot sure how dangerous it has to get. Just having some basic motors that counteract the force you exert with a fast response time probably couldn’t do much damage. An intelligent system to also check that you maintain your balance (or only doing this seated) probably takes away a bunch of risk.
- jncfhnb 3y agoObjects in an immersive environment are not static and unmoving. Guy punches you in the face. What does the system do? Seated is kind of stupid imo.
- vlovich123 3y agoWell first are you wearing just haptic gloves or are you also wearing a mask? In the first case nothing would happen obviously. In both cases the system should be able to distinguish you exerting a force and matching a counteracting force to give a sense of pressure vs VR contact that can be simulated through significantly less force (eg a haptic buzz).
- jncfhnb 3y agoThen you’re back to the current state problem where it just buzzes
- skygazer 3y agoI imagine a force-feedback exo-suit that turns you into a mime, but with sensation. It won’t necessarily give you a punch in the face, but could afford resistance and virtual heft to some virtual objects, and would have been an interesting scene in an Iron Man movie.
- haptic1216 3y agoI work on gloves like this, and that's really not what we see in the real world. The active force applied to the fingers is actually pretty small. The geometry of a flexed hand gives huge mechanical advantage. The key is a large holding force. It's easy to prevent you from closing your hands further without needing to actually overpower you. You don't need to pull hard, you just have to be able to stop hard. No real risk there.
- ChuckMcM 3y agoSee the seldon_mallow comment with the link to https://www.fluidreality.com/ https://www.fluidreality.com/, they do this with small devices that don't need stored air. The "breakthrough" here feels like the connection between the haptic array and the software, if that is the case, then the implementation can be done in lots of ways.
- haptic1216 3y agoHaptX does have a force feedback system, maybe it just wasn't on that day? > the system can't really provide the sense of touch of a static object. Yeah, that's hard because of how you perceive weight. We'd have to be able to pull your forearm down relative to the elbow, and that's not exactly easy to do elegantly. I've thought a lot about it and haven't been able to come up with something that isn't a ridiculous exoskeleton for your arms and shoulders. > I personally think that a feedback system that let you feel the volume or shape of gripped objects would be better, but these are very hard problems. I agree! It really does make the interaction more convincing. I've been working on this problem for the last year or so and it is indeed quite hard. But we're nearly there. Maybe this year ;)