3 ms·

> who actually cares about holding proper conversations with NPCs instead of just moving on to the next bit of actual gameplay I think there's a lot of potenti

by Ukv 3y ago

> who actually cares about holding proper conversations with NPCs instead of just moving on to the next bit of actual gameplay I think there's a lot of potential with LLMs that have two-way interaction with the game world. For example if it can generate `ATTACK <character-name>` API calls, the player can incite a feud and convince it to betray some other character, to the player's advantage. For immersive sims and RPGs, unscripted manipulation of NPCs could be a big part of the "actual gameplay".

dotnet00 3y ago
Rewarding hyper-realistic manipulative behavior sounds like an exceptionally unethical way to apply LLMs... this isn't like shooting or driving in games where it has basically zero correspondence to how those things work irl. Same with current dialogue tree systems.
- Ukv 3y ago
  > Rewarding hyper-realistic manipulative behavior sounds like an exceptionally unethical way to apply LLMs Social deduction games where you lie and manipulate real players are already fairly popular. I don't think manipulating an NPC guard will be worse. > this isn't like shooting or driving in games where it has basically zero correspondence to how those things work irl Gun or steering wheel + pedal controllers aren't that uncommon.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    Games where you manipulate other humans are still done in an "arcade" style (eg Among Us). They don't tend to be focused on realistic manipulation, on the other hand, in an RPG, presumably in manipulating someone, the idea is to find out what they're into through other means and then abuse that, which I think would be getting closer to crossing a line. >Gun or steering wheel + pedal controllers aren't that uncommon Neither gun shaped controllers nor typical wheel+pedal setups really mimic the real world equivalents sufficiently to transfer over. Else they would obviously be the much cheaper approach to learning/testing either of those skills than spending tons of real ammo or driving a real car.
    - Ukv 3y ago
      > Games where you manipulate other humans are still done in an "arcade" style (eg Among Us). They don't tend to be focused on realistic manipulation I don't think the scenario has to be any less fanciful with LLM NPCs than with social deduction or tabletop role-playing games. It's realistic in that you have to fool the (LLM/human playing the) character, but it's still within a fictional setting. > Else they would obviously be the much cheaper approach to learning/testing either of those skills than spending tons of real ammo or driving a real car. Training simulators are absolutely used. Less so for cars, because real cars are accessible enough that it's not worth sacrificing 100% realism, but definitely by the military. Or, consider games like paintball/airsoft.
  - bookofjoe 3y ago
    >Social deduction games where you lie and manipulate real players are already fairly popular. I don't think manipulating an NPC guard will be worse. One word: poker

by Ukv 3y ago

dotnet00 3y ago

Rewarding hyper-realistic manipulative behavior sounds like an exceptionally unethical way to apply LLMs... this isn't like shooting or driving in games where it has basically zero correspondence to how those things work irl. Same with current dialogue tree systems.

Ukv 3y ago
> Rewarding hyper-realistic manipulative behavior sounds like an exceptionally unethical way to apply LLMs Social deduction games where you lie and manipulate real players are already fairly popular. I don't think manipulating an NPC guard will be worse. > this isn't like shooting or driving in games where it has basically zero correspondence to how those things work irl Gun or steering wheel + pedal controllers aren't that uncommon.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Games where you manipulate other humans are still done in an "arcade" style (eg Among Us). They don't tend to be focused on realistic manipulation, on the other hand, in an RPG, presumably in manipulating someone, the idea is to find out what they're into through other means and then abuse that, which I think would be getting closer to crossing a line. >Gun or steering wheel + pedal controllers aren't that uncommon Neither gun shaped controllers nor typical wheel+pedal setups really mimic the real world equivalents sufficiently to transfer over. Else they would obviously be the much cheaper approach to learning/testing either of those skills than spending tons of real ammo or driving a real car.
  - Ukv 3y ago
    > Games where you manipulate other humans are still done in an "arcade" style (eg Among Us). They don't tend to be focused on realistic manipulation I don't think the scenario has to be any less fanciful with LLM NPCs than with social deduction or tabletop role-playing games. It's realistic in that you have to fool the (LLM/human playing the) character, but it's still within a fictional setting. > Else they would obviously be the much cheaper approach to learning/testing either of those skills than spending tons of real ammo or driving a real car. Training simulators are absolutely used. Less so for cars, because real cars are accessible enough that it's not worth sacrificing 100% realism, but definitely by the military. Or, consider games like paintball/airsoft.
- bookofjoe 3y ago
  >Social deduction games where you lie and manipulate real players are already fairly popular. I don't think manipulating an NPC guard will be worse. One word: poker