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I agree ideologically but intellectually this isn’t true. A movie ticket is a license to watch the movie. If you sneak in, would anyone say that’s legal? Piracy

I agree ideologically but intellectually this isn’t true. A movie ticket is a license to watch the movie. If you sneak in, would anyone say that’s legal? Piracy is the same thing. Buying a video game these days is a contract for a license to use the game. I hate it, but that’s the legal aspect

sircastor 3y ago
For what it’s worth, theaters see it slightly differently. A movie ticket is rental of a seat in the theater.
- tesdinger 3y ago
  Your focusing on the unimportant aspect though, the discussion is about the licensing for watching the movie.
  - SpaghettiCthulu 3y ago
    No. You're missing the point that that is not what you are paying for when you purchase a movie ticket. You are renting the seat in the theatre.
    - tesdinger 3y ago
      The theater is absolutely passing on movie licensing costs onto its customers
dathinab 3y ago
> intellectually intellectually piracy is still not stealing it's causing hypothetical financial damages I say hypothetical because they are actually only there if you would have bought the game/sub/etc. if you couldn't have pirated the game. But in many case that's not the case (and in many others it is). Most commonly the actual damages are much smaller then whatever companies get away with claiming they are. And there had been studies showing that for some games piracy actually increased their sells long term. Through definitely not all games. Anyway causing financial damages != stealing, mainly on a per-case basis financial damages from actual stealing tend to hugely outweighs the ones from piracy.
- dartos 3y ago
  You seem to really be splitting hairs here.
  - dathinab 3y ago
    not at all it's a huge difference when you consider how it will affect how people see and what people think is okay to prevent privacy (people including law makers and judges)
  - ingorichter 3y ago
    [dead]
- asylteltine 3y ago
  That’s not a good argument because what if you stole something from a store ALL the way in the back covered in dust that literally no one even knew about. Would you say that’s not theft because it’s not a loss of value?
  - TrueDuality 3y ago
    Your analogy falls down because the act of taking a physical good deprives the current owner of that good without recompense. That is the definition of stealing. Software and digital content piracy does not deprive any other owner of anything else, this is isn't stealing in the legal sense. It may be financial harm or copyright abuse but those are both separate crimes from theft. Piracy isn't legal, but it isn't theft either.
  - agilob 3y ago
    If you could do piracy to my car, but my car would still be in my garage, I would be perfectly happy with it.
- layer8 3y ago
  The issue is that if piracy were legal, the financial damage would become very real. Therefore it has to be made illegal. The fact that it’s not technically stealing is a side issue.
morelisp 3y ago
Nobody has ever been sued for copyright infringement for failing to buy a ticket.
portaouflop 3y ago
A movie ticket is a one-time permission to watch the movie in that particular place and time - it has nothing to do with licensing.
samch 3y ago
I would think the analogy is more akin to Netflix vs owning a copy of a movie. In many cases, consumers have a choice. They can spend a bit more and always have access to a copy of a movie that they own or they could hope that it’s available on one of their streaming services (the availability being beyond the control of the consumer and subject to arbitrary decisions). This is setting aside the fact that subscription-based access almost always requires an Internet connection and DRM protections which can be viewed as an invasion of privacy.
jmac01 3y ago
That would be trespassing, but is it actually illegal to experience license content or just to copy/share it? If I'm in a bar and they are playing illegal streams of movies are we all commiting crimes or just the bar owner?
hedora 3y ago
I bought a Ubisoft game, and got to play zero times (it won't run). I can't get a refund. Is it legal to sneak into the movie after buying the ticket and being refused admittance without cause? Probably not. Would a jury convict? Probably not.
eastbound 3y ago
Piracy is only immoral if you consider the state should prevent people from reusing everyone’s copyable work, and protect the companies for it. It’s a ridiculously difficult task which is ridiculously costly to maintain, at the expense of taxpayers. If you consider that the state shouldn’t intervene, or shouldn’t intervene in this way, then it’s not immoral. For example, the state could say “DRM and if anyone can break the DRM, they’re free to use the game” or it could say “Any software becomes open-source after 20 years” (which, at least, would have the benefit of being useful). Same goes for songs or other artistic work, it will be much less monetizable but maybe it will restore the “art” part in “art”.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

sircastor 3y ago

For what it’s worth, theaters see it slightly differently. A movie ticket is rental of a seat in the theater.

tesdinger 3y ago
Your focusing on the unimportant aspect though, the discussion is about the licensing for watching the movie.
- SpaghettiCthulu 3y ago
  No. You're missing the point that that is not what you are paying for when you purchase a movie ticket. You are renting the seat in the theatre.
  - tesdinger 3y ago
    The theater is absolutely passing on movie licensing costs onto its customers

dathinab 3y ago

> intellectually intellectually piracy is still not stealing it's causing hypothetical financial damages I say hypothetical because they are actually only there if you would have bought the game/sub/etc. if you couldn't have pirated the game. But in many case that's not the case (and in many others it is). Most commonly the actual damages are much smaller then whatever companies get away with claiming they are. And there had been studies showing that for some games piracy actually increased their sells long term. Through definitely not all games. Anyway causing financial damages != stealing, mainly on a per-case basis financial damages from actual stealing tend to hugely outweighs the ones from piracy.

dartos 3y ago
You seem to really be splitting hairs here.
- dathinab 3y ago
  not at all it's a huge difference when you consider how it will affect how people see and what people think is okay to prevent privacy (people including law makers and judges)
- ingorichter 3y ago
  [dead]
asylteltine 3y ago
That’s not a good argument because what if you stole something from a store ALL the way in the back covered in dust that literally no one even knew about. Would you say that’s not theft because it’s not a loss of value?
- TrueDuality 3y ago
  Your analogy falls down because the act of taking a physical good deprives the current owner of that good without recompense. That is the definition of stealing. Software and digital content piracy does not deprive any other owner of anything else, this is isn't stealing in the legal sense. It may be financial harm or copyright abuse but those are both separate crimes from theft. Piracy isn't legal, but it isn't theft either.
- agilob 3y ago
  If you could do piracy to my car, but my car would still be in my garage, I would be perfectly happy with it.
layer8 3y ago
The issue is that if piracy were legal, the financial damage would become very real. Therefore it has to be made illegal. The fact that it’s not technically stealing is a side issue.

morelisp 3y ago

Nobody has ever been sued for copyright infringement for failing to buy a ticket.

portaouflop 3y ago

A movie ticket is a one-time permission to watch the movie in that particular place and time - it has nothing to do with licensing.

samch 3y ago

I would think the analogy is more akin to Netflix vs owning a copy of a movie. In many cases, consumers have a choice. They can spend a bit more and always have access to a copy of a movie that they own or they could hope that it’s available on one of their streaming services (the availability being beyond the control of the consumer and subject to arbitrary decisions). This is setting aside the fact that subscription-based access almost always requires an Internet connection and DRM protections which can be viewed as an invasion of privacy.

jmac01 3y ago

That would be trespassing, but is it actually illegal to experience license content or just to copy/share it? If I'm in a bar and they are playing illegal streams of movies are we all commiting crimes or just the bar owner?

hedora 3y ago

I bought a Ubisoft game, and got to play zero times (it won't run). I can't get a refund. Is it legal to sneak into the movie after buying the ticket and being refused admittance without cause? Probably not. Would a jury convict? Probably not.

eastbound 3y ago

Piracy is only immoral if you consider the state should prevent people from reusing everyone’s copyable work, and protect the companies for it. It’s a ridiculously difficult task which is ridiculously costly to maintain, at the expense of taxpayers. If you consider that the state shouldn’t intervene, or shouldn’t intervene in this way, then it’s not immoral. For example, the state could say “DRM and if anyone can break the DRM, they’re free to use the game” or it could say “Any software becomes open-source after 20 years” (which, at least, would have the benefit of being useful). Same goes for songs or other artistic work, it will be much less monetizable but maybe it will restore the “art” part in “art”.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]