7 ms·

> If everyone who uses this software were to use Spotify direct, ads and all, in the long run it would make pennies for the artists at best. I'm not sure that

> If everyone who uses this software were to use Spotify direct, ads and all, in the long run it would make pennies for the artists at best. I'm not sure that "they get paid so little that we may as well stop paying them anything" is an argument you really want to make here? Yes, Spotify pay is crap. Not paying anything is crap too. Two wrongs don't make a right.

drewdevault 3y ago
I'm not making that argument. I made an argument that you have better options in which the artist is paid more.
- viraptor 3y ago
  You said "Direct your passion for getting musicians paid to Spotify and the distribution system, not to this." but that's not the problem this specific software can solve. However the authors of this software can work on adding reporting the plays back to Spotify. (And I believe they should)
  - drewdevault 3y ago
    This software is not trying to solve the problem of getting artists paid, and the suggestion that people should listen to Spotify ads and all is not really going to solve that problem, either.
- jsnell 3y ago
  Taking the music without compensation and pretending that you're totally going to buy some music or merch from some other artist doesn't actually lead to artists being compensated. While in the plan where you buy music and only listen to the music you bought you don't need this app at all.
  - drewdevault 3y ago
    I've spent thousands of dollars on Bandcamp over the past several years, attended many live shows, bought merchandise, etc. Suggesting that one is "pretending" to do these things when making this argument is a hell of a strawman. I feel like pretending that you're supporting your favorite artists by listening them on Spotify is a bit more of an appropriate comparison.
    - apwell23 3y ago
      > attended many live shows, bought merchandise, etc. I don't understand what does attending live shows have to do with how you listen to their music. Ppl who do listen on spotify also do that.
      - drewdevault 3y ago
        Live shows are generally the largest source of revenue for musicians.
        apwell23 3y ago
        So what? You think only ppl listening on bandcamp go to live shows? How is it relevant to the current topic.
        hedora 3y ago
        If the purpose of Spotify is to pay artists, then it's objectively a failure. If you want pay musicians for their music, then you'd be better off buying albums on bandcamp or attending concerts. Paying Spotify is marginally better than just lighting your money on fire. If the purpose of Spotify is to allow you to listen to music with minimal effort and cost, and don't care if the bands get paid then it does a middling job among paid services. It's probably more convenient than piracy, but I don't know what the state of modern music piracy is (I could imagine a gray-area Internet group that does a better job with metadata and recommendation algorithms than the paid sites do, and that links to a popcorn time style torrent thing.)
    - 3y ago
  - blibble 3y ago
    I spend quite a lot on bandcamp and amazon's mp3 store (couple of hundred bucks a year maybe?) I am very very happy to pay for DRM free music however this getting increasingly difficult as companies don't even seem to want to provide it for sale at all under no circumstances am I going to pay a monthly subscription for a digital product that can be delivered as a one off download
    - hedora 3y ago
      I know people that still buy CDs. I've been meaning to dump my Tidal artist list to a spreadsheet or something, and figure out how to pay a few dozen artists directly this year. One possibility is to buy their albums and copy them to my NAS. Paying for DRM-free downloads seems easier / better, but I'd want to make sure the artists' cut is higher than with streaming. For what it's worth, iTunes is apparently DRM-free these days. I don't want to figure out their terrible GUI, but presumably there's some tool that'll copy the songs out of it and into a filesystem.
      - blibble 3y ago
        I would buy CDs and rip them up until about 5 years ago at which point the stuff I liked vanished > For what it's worth, iTunes is apparently DRM-free these days. I'll try this!
portaouflop 3y ago
If you care about the artist here pay them directly either through bandcamp, by going to the physical shows and buying merch, ordering physical copies of their music at the label, patreon, or whatever form of direct support they have set up. Spotify is just leeching of the culture and as drew pointed out you will be 10000 times more effective if you use one of those options. Spotify is more or less just a signal booster nowadays - because you have to be on there since everyone uses it. I for one would never put my music on Spotify, even if I get what like 20$ out of it, what a horrible company and service.
- apwell23 3y ago
  > If you care about the artist here pay them directly either through bandcamp Not everyone is on bandcamp. Seems like some sort of north american website.
  - portaouflop 3y ago
    I listed four other concrete options and closed with “or whatever other direct support method they have set up” — I assure you that every artist that wants to make money will have set up _something_ besides Spotify since it’s practically impossible to make money through them.
    - apwell23 3y ago
      > I assure you that every artist that wants to make money will have set up _something_ besides Spotify since it’s practically impossible to make money through them. you are wrong in your assurances( eg: i am listening to this on spotify at the moment Odeon Yılları Album by Nesrin Sipahi ) and your "other options" have nothing to do with how you listen to their music. Ppl listening on spotify also go to concerts they are not mutually exclusive.
      - morelisp 3y ago
        Are you saying Nesrin Sipahi, who received a personal award from the president, has nothing but Spotify?

drewdevault 3y ago

I'm not making that argument. I made an argument that you have better options in which the artist is paid more.

viraptor 3y ago
You said "Direct your passion for getting musicians paid to Spotify and the distribution system, not to this." but that's not the problem this specific software can solve. However the authors of this software can work on adding reporting the plays back to Spotify. (And I believe they should)
- drewdevault 3y ago
  This software is not trying to solve the problem of getting artists paid, and the suggestion that people should listen to Spotify ads and all is not really going to solve that problem, either.
jsnell 3y ago
Taking the music without compensation and pretending that you're totally going to buy some music or merch from some other artist doesn't actually lead to artists being compensated. While in the plan where you buy music and only listen to the music you bought you don't need this app at all.
- drewdevault 3y ago
  I've spent thousands of dollars on Bandcamp over the past several years, attended many live shows, bought merchandise, etc. Suggesting that one is "pretending" to do these things when making this argument is a hell of a strawman. I feel like pretending that you're supporting your favorite artists by listening them on Spotify is a bit more of an appropriate comparison.
  - apwell23 3y ago
    > attended many live shows, bought merchandise, etc. I don't understand what does attending live shows have to do with how you listen to their music. Ppl who do listen on spotify also do that.
    - drewdevault 3y ago
      Live shows are generally the largest source of revenue for musicians.
      - apwell23 3y ago
        So what? You think only ppl listening on bandcamp go to live shows? How is it relevant to the current topic.
        hedora 3y ago
        If the purpose of Spotify is to pay artists, then it's objectively a failure. If you want pay musicians for their music, then you'd be better off buying albums on bandcamp or attending concerts. Paying Spotify is marginally better than just lighting your money on fire. If the purpose of Spotify is to allow you to listen to music with minimal effort and cost, and don't care if the bands get paid then it does a middling job among paid services. It's probably more convenient than piracy, but I don't know what the state of modern music piracy is (I could imagine a gray-area Internet group that does a better job with metadata and recommendation algorithms than the paid sites do, and that links to a popcorn time style torrent thing.)
  - 3y ago
- blibble 3y ago
  I spend quite a lot on bandcamp and amazon's mp3 store (couple of hundred bucks a year maybe?) I am very very happy to pay for DRM free music however this getting increasingly difficult as companies don't even seem to want to provide it for sale at all under no circumstances am I going to pay a monthly subscription for a digital product that can be delivered as a one off download
  - hedora 3y ago
    I know people that still buy CDs. I've been meaning to dump my Tidal artist list to a spreadsheet or something, and figure out how to pay a few dozen artists directly this year. One possibility is to buy their albums and copy them to my NAS. Paying for DRM-free downloads seems easier / better, but I'd want to make sure the artists' cut is higher than with streaming. For what it's worth, iTunes is apparently DRM-free these days. I don't want to figure out their terrible GUI, but presumably there's some tool that'll copy the songs out of it and into a filesystem.
    - blibble 3y ago
      I would buy CDs and rip them up until about 5 years ago at which point the stuff I liked vanished > For what it's worth, iTunes is apparently DRM-free these days. I'll try this!

portaouflop 3y ago

If you care about the artist here pay them directly either through bandcamp, by going to the physical shows and buying merch, ordering physical copies of their music at the label, patreon, or whatever form of direct support they have set up. Spotify is just leeching of the culture and as drew pointed out you will be 10000 times more effective if you use one of those options. Spotify is more or less just a signal booster nowadays - because you have to be on there since everyone uses it. I for one would never put my music on Spotify, even if I get what like 20$ out of it, what a horrible company and service.

apwell23 3y ago
> If you care about the artist here pay them directly either through bandcamp Not everyone is on bandcamp. Seems like some sort of north american website.
- portaouflop 3y ago
  I listed four other concrete options and closed with “or whatever other direct support method they have set up” — I assure you that every artist that wants to make money will have set up _something_ besides Spotify since it’s practically impossible to make money through them.
  - apwell23 3y ago
    > I assure you that every artist that wants to make money will have set up _something_ besides Spotify since it’s practically impossible to make money through them. you are wrong in your assurances( eg: i am listening to this on spotify at the moment Odeon Yılları Album by Nesrin Sipahi ) and your "other options" have nothing to do with how you listen to their music. Ppl listening on spotify also go to concerts they are not mutually exclusive.
    - morelisp 3y ago
      Are you saying Nesrin Sipahi, who received a personal award from the president, has nothing but Spotify?