3 ms·

travesty of justice doesn't begin to describe it. there must be something else wrong besides just the software? how could the justice department just blindly

travesty of justice doesn't begin to describe it. there must be something else wrong besides just the software? how could the justice department just blindly trust the software accounting without any other evidence.

nabla9 3y ago
Did you read the article? It was not justice department (aka Crown Prosecutor) prosecuting those people. In UK private prosecution for crimes is possible. Probably a major reason for this kind of bullshit goes on.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Wait, "private" meaning a non-government entity such as a corporation can prosecute someone, without any involvement of the public justice system, and send people to jail? I assume not just any private entity is empowered to do this, but still... Wow, it's bad enough here in the US that we have a private prison system, but that really takes the cake.
  - nabla9 3y ago
    Yes. Really weird. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prosecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prosecution https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/private-prosecutions https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/private-prosecutions
    - 123pie123 3y ago
      to me, there nothing really wrong with the concept of private prosecutions whats happened here is a total fuck up of justice, with many many people lying and the fact people/ judges have believed computer printouts as fact - ffs
      - 123pie123 3y ago
        I must admit I'm now leaning over to not having private prosecutions based this fuck up, the PO have 100% abused the system. which means other larger companies could do the same - maybe only CPS should bring cases
  - optimalsolver 3y ago
    >I assume not just any private entity is empowered to do this Anyone can bring a private prosecution.
  - foldr 3y ago
    > can prosecute someone, without any involvement of the public justice system No, it goes through the same public justice system, it’s just that the prosecution case is made by a private person or entity rather than the Crown Prosecution Service. It’s “private” in the sense that most civil suites are private. More info here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-prosecutions/private-prosecutions https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-prosecuti...
magospietato 3y ago
You are misunderstanding how much of a travesty this is. No government organisation (typically the Crown Prosecution Service in England and Wales) was involved in bringing these prosecutions. The Post Office itself was legislatively empowered to bring private prosecutions of their employees to the state courts of England. The whole thing is insane.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Reminds me of private prosecutions here in Canada. Is it similar or does the postal office have specific powers that go even beyond that?
  - komadori 3y ago
    Anyone can bring a private prosecution in the UK and I don't believe the Post Office has any specific additional powers in this regard.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - magospietato 3y ago
      Institutionally empowered would have been a better phrase. While the PO doesn't have specific legislative powers to bring private prosecutions, they did have a significant amount of institutional holdover from when is was a public body. Specifically, a close working relationship with the police and other bodies with statutory powers that went far beyond any relationship a privately owned body should have. E.g. they were given direct access to the Police National Computer System.
dessimus 3y ago
There are lots of wrongful convictions here in the US. Some even have DNA edivence clearing them and proving another committing the crime, and the Prosecution will fight that it does not matter, as long as 12 people thought they were guilty, then they are.

nabla9 3y ago

Did you read the article? It was not justice department (aka Crown Prosecutor) prosecuting those people. In UK private prosecution for crimes is possible. Probably a major reason for this kind of bullshit goes on.

kelnos 3y ago
Wait, "private" meaning a non-government entity such as a corporation can prosecute someone, without any involvement of the public justice system, and send people to jail? I assume not just any private entity is empowered to do this, but still... Wow, it's bad enough here in the US that we have a private prison system, but that really takes the cake.
- nabla9 3y ago
  Yes. Really weird. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prosecution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prosecution https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/private-prosecutions https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/private-prosecutions
  - 123pie123 3y ago
    to me, there nothing really wrong with the concept of private prosecutions whats happened here is a total fuck up of justice, with many many people lying and the fact people/ judges have believed computer printouts as fact - ffs
    - 123pie123 3y ago
      I must admit I'm now leaning over to not having private prosecutions based this fuck up, the PO have 100% abused the system. which means other larger companies could do the same - maybe only CPS should bring cases
- optimalsolver 3y ago
  >I assume not just any private entity is empowered to do this Anyone can bring a private prosecution.
- foldr 3y ago
  > can prosecute someone, without any involvement of the public justice system No, it goes through the same public justice system, it’s just that the prosecution case is made by a private person or entity rather than the Crown Prosecution Service. It’s “private” in the sense that most civil suites are private. More info here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-prosecutions/private-prosecutions https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-prosecuti...

magospietato 3y ago

You are misunderstanding how much of a travesty this is. No government organisation (typically the Crown Prosecution Service in England and Wales) was involved in bringing these prosecutions. The Post Office itself was legislatively empowered to bring private prosecutions of their employees to the state courts of England. The whole thing is insane.

mardifoufs 3y ago
Reminds me of private prosecutions here in Canada. Is it similar or does the postal office have specific powers that go even beyond that?
- komadori 3y ago
  Anyone can bring a private prosecution in the UK and I don't believe the Post Office has any specific additional powers in this regard.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - magospietato 3y ago
    Institutionally empowered would have been a better phrase. While the PO doesn't have specific legislative powers to bring private prosecutions, they did have a significant amount of institutional holdover from when is was a public body. Specifically, a close working relationship with the police and other bodies with statutory powers that went far beyond any relationship a privately owned body should have. E.g. they were given direct access to the Police National Computer System.

dessimus 3y ago

There are lots of wrongful convictions here in the US. Some even have DNA edivence clearing them and proving another committing the crime, and the Prosecution will fight that it does not matter, as long as 12 people thought they were guilty, then they are.