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Heh, so this has piqued my interest. I have absolutely no experience in online investing/day trading, although I'm pretty sure a lot of you are veterans. Any b

Heh, so this has piqued my interest. I have absolutely no experience in online investing/day trading, although I'm pretty sure a lot of you are veterans. Any books you'd recommend to a programmer with day trading aspirations?

pjharrin 18y ago
http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Analysis-Financial-Markets-Comprehensive/dp/0735200661 http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Analysis-Financial-Markets-C...
- fattyfatfat 18y ago
  http://fattyfatfat.com/2008/10/automated-day-trader-most-technical-analysis-is-crap/ http://fattyfatfat.com/2008/10/automated-day-trader-most-tec... I still stand by my above claim that Tech Analysis (and especially LONG term trending) has no theoretical basis, except for the fact that everyone else believes in it.
  - pjharrin 18y ago
    I agree that trend analysis has a lot smaller foundation for the long term, but in the short run its essentially analyzing the supply and demand of the stock, which can be predicted (not all of the time of course). Outside factors like news don't occur everyday, so the using technical analysis for intraday trading is very reasonable
  - steveplace 18y ago
    Then you better not buy index funds. Those are basically trend-following systems over the long term. And there is statistical data to back up that trend following does work.
    - jcl 18y ago
      I think he means that there is no theoretical basis for a long-term system that claims to beat the indexes. Index funds don't, by definition.
  - andylei 18y ago
    regardless of whether it has "theoretical basis", there are plenty of hedge funds that make plenty of money with it.
fallentimes 18y ago
I'd learn about finance before you learn about day trading. The Intelligent Investor - Warren Buffet's favorite A Random Walk Down Wall Street for one perspective. Mark Douglas books for a different perspective Options Volatility & Pricing for the technical stuff. And Inside the Mind of a Street Addict for the bathroom read.
- fattyfatfat 18y ago
  Intelligent Investor: absolutely. My first investment book. My deep suspicion is that THIS book will be more important in the next few years as company valuations tank. Even now tons of firms trade below book value, which was one of Ben Graham's great criteria. For years this has been impossible to find, but with the credit crisis, its back. Now... to choose the good ones... Options Volatility and Pricing by S. Natenberg (sp) is a great theoretical primer for options, though typically a bit dense for people outside the industry. The writing style is brutal, but this book has probably made more millionaires than any single other book in history. Walk around the option exchange floors and every clerk has a copy, to this day.
mattmaroon 18y ago
Yeah, don't daytrade. It's a sucker's game. The market is too close to efficient for you to recoup what you lose in brokerage fees and excess taxes. Fund your IRA to the max, and if you're 20+ years from retirement buy all ETFs with low expense rations. If you're closer to retirement, buy fewer stocks and more t-bills, etc.
- steveplace 18y ago
  The market is too close to efficient for you to recoup what you lose in brokerage fees and excess taxes. No, it's not. Far from it. EMT is not practical in the short term.
- Brushfire 18y ago
  Its hardly a suckers game if you know what you are doing. I know prop traders that make huge bank essentially daytrading on the forex and others. Sure, its highly controlled gambling, but you of all people should realize that its not a losing game for everyone. If anything, its just a suckers game for small timers -- like all other gambling.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Any sufficiently volatile form of gambling has big winners. That doesn't mean it's +EV. The markets (especially forex, from what I hear) are such that even if it were impossible to outperform the broader indexes, you could very well know multiple people who did so over a period of years or even decades. See Fooled by Randomness for a more detailed explanation.
    - volida 18y ago
      if you open 1 lot in your life and sell it and outperform the market, yes that's random. If you open more lots and your success rate is higher than 50% then you can't really call it random. Playing random in forex kills you. You can treat it as gambling yes, but it's not.
      - 18y ago
steveplace 18y ago
There's a ton of financial blogs that would help you get started, and those can be more valuable than books. The ones I read are on my blogroll at investingwithoptions.com Read Van Tharp's Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom it's a must... teaches you that the entry is not important. It's the position sizing, risk management, and the exits. Also: - Options as a strategic investment - Mind over markets
wildwood 18y ago
Anything by Van Tharp. He trains traders at all levels for a living. My personal favorite is "Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom".

pjharrin 18y ago

http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Analysis-Financial-Markets-Comprehensive/dp/0735200661 http://www.amazon.com/Technical-Analysis-Financial-Markets-C...

fattyfatfat 18y ago
http://fattyfatfat.com/2008/10/automated-day-trader-most-technical-analysis-is-crap/ http://fattyfatfat.com/2008/10/automated-day-trader-most-tec... I still stand by my above claim that Tech Analysis (and especially LONG term trending) has no theoretical basis, except for the fact that everyone else believes in it.
- pjharrin 18y ago
  I agree that trend analysis has a lot smaller foundation for the long term, but in the short run its essentially analyzing the supply and demand of the stock, which can be predicted (not all of the time of course). Outside factors like news don't occur everyday, so the using technical analysis for intraday trading is very reasonable
- steveplace 18y ago
  Then you better not buy index funds. Those are basically trend-following systems over the long term. And there is statistical data to back up that trend following does work.
  - jcl 18y ago
    I think he means that there is no theoretical basis for a long-term system that claims to beat the indexes. Index funds don't, by definition.
- andylei 18y ago
  regardless of whether it has "theoretical basis", there are plenty of hedge funds that make plenty of money with it.

fallentimes 18y ago

I'd learn about finance before you learn about day trading. The Intelligent Investor - Warren Buffet's favorite A Random Walk Down Wall Street for one perspective. Mark Douglas books for a different perspective Options Volatility & Pricing for the technical stuff. And Inside the Mind of a Street Addict for the bathroom read.

fattyfatfat 18y ago
Intelligent Investor: absolutely. My first investment book. My deep suspicion is that THIS book will be more important in the next few years as company valuations tank. Even now tons of firms trade below book value, which was one of Ben Graham's great criteria. For years this has been impossible to find, but with the credit crisis, its back. Now... to choose the good ones... Options Volatility and Pricing by S. Natenberg (sp) is a great theoretical primer for options, though typically a bit dense for people outside the industry. The writing style is brutal, but this book has probably made more millionaires than any single other book in history. Walk around the option exchange floors and every clerk has a copy, to this day.

mattmaroon 18y ago

Yeah, don't daytrade. It's a sucker's game. The market is too close to efficient for you to recoup what you lose in brokerage fees and excess taxes. Fund your IRA to the max, and if you're 20+ years from retirement buy all ETFs with low expense rations. If you're closer to retirement, buy fewer stocks and more t-bills, etc.

steveplace 18y ago
The market is too close to efficient for you to recoup what you lose in brokerage fees and excess taxes. No, it's not. Far from it. EMT is not practical in the short term.
Brushfire 18y ago
Its hardly a suckers game if you know what you are doing. I know prop traders that make huge bank essentially daytrading on the forex and others. Sure, its highly controlled gambling, but you of all people should realize that its not a losing game for everyone. If anything, its just a suckers game for small timers -- like all other gambling.
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  Any sufficiently volatile form of gambling has big winners. That doesn't mean it's +EV. The markets (especially forex, from what I hear) are such that even if it were impossible to outperform the broader indexes, you could very well know multiple people who did so over a period of years or even decades. See Fooled by Randomness for a more detailed explanation.
  - volida 18y ago
    if you open 1 lot in your life and sell it and outperform the market, yes that's random. If you open more lots and your success rate is higher than 50% then you can't really call it random. Playing random in forex kills you. You can treat it as gambling yes, but it's not.
    - 18y ago

steveplace 18y ago

There's a ton of financial blogs that would help you get started, and those can be more valuable than books. The ones I read are on my blogroll at investingwithoptions.com Read Van Tharp's Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom it's a must... teaches you that the entry is not important. It's the position sizing, risk management, and the exits. Also: - Options as a strategic investment - Mind over markets

wildwood 18y ago

Anything by Van Tharp. He trains traders at all levels for a living. My personal favorite is "Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom".