3 ms·

Bentham's mummification is a Brown M&Ms story. Once you see that in his life the result of Utilitarianism was mummification in an era where that was batshit th

Bentham's mummification is a Brown M&Ms story. Once you see that in his life the result of Utilitarianism was mummification in an era where that was batshit there's kind of a long pause and a "recheck everything" and oooh look its full of utility monsters and all sorts of other naive garbage which somehow we are expected to take seriously. Point and laugh is the right response. Not 600 page rebuttals.

ben_w 3y ago
> utility monsters are specifically a criticism of utilitarianism, the people taking them seriously are doing so to say "and therefore utilitarianism is wrong". Also, did you… fail to notice that I was also describing utilitarianism as naive, just without using that specific word? Because I was. > mummification in an era where that was batshit It was also an era when being gay or an atheist or supporting equal rights for women or ending slavery was "batshit". And today we have Elon Musk, who many regard as batshit, but hey, SpaceX exists and probably wouldn't have gotten this far without him (it's not like the other billionaires in the new space race did any better than the old rocket companies they're trying to displace). "Batshit" is a trivial, playground, insult. Even when it's true, it doesn't count for much, because it's so broad.
- leashless 3y ago
  Mummification. On a bet. With the motivation being to demonstrate utility. That is seriously enough to recheck everything because it seems to have blown up the founder. And if it does this to him, what's it gonna do to us? It does not need to be more complicated than this.
  - gqcwwjtg 3y ago
    Seems like the main negative utility it created is people like you deciding it’s more important than the concept of comparing potential outcomes for how good they are. > And if it does this to him, what’s it going to do to us? Is this serious? It did him no harm.
    - leashless 3y ago
      If you can't see the problem, you've already thrown away something that you needed. I mean that most sincerely.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > Mummification. On a bet. With the motivation being to demonstrate utility. Without any variant of the phrases "it's weird" or "just because", why exactly do you feel so strongly about mummification after death, regardless of what motived him? I don't care what happens to my body after death, because I won't be using any more. Do you expect to keep using yours after you die, or something? Also, rereading your earlier comments: what exactly is your belief about the brown M&Ms story? Why do you think Van Halen asked for M&Ms with the brown ones removed in the first place? > That is seriously enough to recheck everything because it seems to have blown up the founder. It was rechecked, and popularised, by John Stuart Mill. My issues with utilitarianism survive this new person, because they aren't ad hominem attacks on eccentric personalities.
    - leashless 3y ago
      Fuck no. This is the rationalist error. Nope. Not doing it. Pointing and laughing is the right response, not trying to figure out why mummification in the Victorian era is a bad code smell for the mindset that produces it.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        So your gut reaction is overriding any capacity for actual thought? I guess I can empathise — when I don't get enough sleep or if I drink too much caffeine my emotions can overwhelm my ability to reason. And that one time a heart transplant was shown explicitly on a TV documentary. As a mere memory that's fine, but at the moment the heart came out of the chest on TV? Nopenopenope. Likewise the existence of horror as a genre. The mere adverts for the Saw franchise left me disgusted at humanity, so obviously I never watched the films. Irony, you write as if rationality throws away something that we need, but I think you've lost something…
        leashless 3y ago
        "actual thought" "gut reaction" etc are artificial categories and are nothing like the real processes of human cognition. these are myths you are using to reason about reason. It's nonsense.

ben_w 3y ago

> utility monsters are specifically a criticism of utilitarianism, the people taking them seriously are doing so to say "and therefore utilitarianism is wrong". Also, did you… fail to notice that I was also describing utilitarianism as naive, just without using that specific word? Because I was. > mummification in an era where that was batshit It was also an era when being gay or an atheist or supporting equal rights for women or ending slavery was "batshit". And today we have Elon Musk, who many regard as batshit, but hey, SpaceX exists and probably wouldn't have gotten this far without him (it's not like the other billionaires in the new space race did any better than the old rocket companies they're trying to displace). "Batshit" is a trivial, playground, insult. Even when it's true, it doesn't count for much, because it's so broad.

leashless 3y ago
Mummification. On a bet. With the motivation being to demonstrate utility. That is seriously enough to recheck everything because it seems to have blown up the founder. And if it does this to him, what's it gonna do to us? It does not need to be more complicated than this.
- gqcwwjtg 3y ago
  Seems like the main negative utility it created is people like you deciding it’s more important than the concept of comparing potential outcomes for how good they are. > And if it does this to him, what’s it going to do to us? Is this serious? It did him no harm.
  - leashless 3y ago
    If you can't see the problem, you've already thrown away something that you needed. I mean that most sincerely.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > Mummification. On a bet. With the motivation being to demonstrate utility. Without any variant of the phrases "it's weird" or "just because", why exactly do you feel so strongly about mummification after death, regardless of what motived him? I don't care what happens to my body after death, because I won't be using any more. Do you expect to keep using yours after you die, or something? Also, rereading your earlier comments: what exactly is your belief about the brown M&Ms story? Why do you think Van Halen asked for M&Ms with the brown ones removed in the first place? > That is seriously enough to recheck everything because it seems to have blown up the founder. It was rechecked, and popularised, by John Stuart Mill. My issues with utilitarianism survive this new person, because they aren't ad hominem attacks on eccentric personalities.
  - leashless 3y ago
    Fuck no. This is the rationalist error. Nope. Not doing it. Pointing and laughing is the right response, not trying to figure out why mummification in the Victorian era is a bad code smell for the mindset that produces it.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      So your gut reaction is overriding any capacity for actual thought? I guess I can empathise — when I don't get enough sleep or if I drink too much caffeine my emotions can overwhelm my ability to reason. And that one time a heart transplant was shown explicitly on a TV documentary. As a mere memory that's fine, but at the moment the heart came out of the chest on TV? Nopenopenope. Likewise the existence of horror as a genre. The mere adverts for the Saw franchise left me disgusted at humanity, so obviously I never watched the films. Irony, you write as if rationality throws away something that we need, but I think you've lost something…
      - leashless 3y ago
        "actual thought" "gut reaction" etc are artificial categories and are nothing like the real processes of human cognition. these are myths you are using to reason about reason. It's nonsense.