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Well that's a dismal way to look at it. Regulations should be in place to prevent these kinds of business practices. For example, if a user doesn't use a servic

Well that's a dismal way to look at it. Regulations should be in place to prevent these kinds of business practices. For example, if a user doesn't use a service, perhaps they should get a refund for those months.

paxys 3y ago
This is exactly the problem I am talking about. Why is the first instinct to always externalize blame? Why is big government the default solution to everything? How about – if you are not getting value out of a subscription (that you signed up for), go and cancel it. And if you choose not to, don't blame the rest of the world for your money problems.
- dvdkon 3y ago
  Bluntly, we live with individuals who just suck at finance (this extends to other now-necessary skills too). I want to live in a world where they aren't constantly taken advantage of. Consider it a mental disorder if you need to; we don't have to punish people for being dumb. Besides, regulation of this kind (cancelling subscription) benefits everyone but certain companies. I don't want to waste my time due to someone's misguided free market ideology. Even if navigating endless bureaucracy does make me feel smart. That said, I hate the tendency of regulators to outright ban certain activities. Everyone should be free to throw their money away (by e.g. making risky investments), after signing a lot of very scary forms and showing that they really mean it.
  - paxys 3y ago
    If I watch 1 hour of Netflix a month and you watch 300 hundred hours a month, should the government mandate that Netflix charge you 300x more than me? If not, why should the person who watches 0 hours be treated any differently? Ultimately Netflix is creating the plan and publishing its details, and we are all opting into it willingly. Whether we get value from it or not is for us to decide, not the government.
    - dvdkon 3y ago
      Because a person who doesn't watch Netflix for a month gets no value from their money, so not charging them is a clear win with no downsides. Netflix doesn't get as much money, but since they didn't provide any service, I fail to see why that's a problem. The only reasonable price for 0 work is 0€. For anything more it gets complicated.
      - nightski 3y ago
        That's not entirely true though. Netflix had to be prepared to provide that service. Meaning they needed to be able to have the capacity to serve the videos if necessary. Some times just having that capacity has a cost in and of itself. Not to mention they still are producing content whether you watch it or not, and by subscribing you are paying for that content to be created. It's more extreme in other scenarios, like say hospital emergency rooms. But it still applies to services like Netflix imho.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  I'm with you that someone who has been paying for a service despite not using it shouldn't necessarily be entitled for a refund. That said, I wholeheartedly believe that there should be a legal requirement for any subscription to be as easy to cancel as it is to sign up. Gym memberships are notoriously for being criminally difficult to cancel. It's beyond ludicrous that I can sign up for a gym online or at my local gym, but can't cancel the same way. Nope, I have to pick up a form (which only the manager can give you, which means I have to go there when he's there, and he'll be conveniently unavailable), fill it out, mail it, and hope they don't conveniently "lose" it. And even if they don't lose it, they'll just sit on it for 2-3 months before the payments stop.
- jjav 3y ago
  > How about – if you are not getting value out of a subscription (that you signed up for), go and cancel it. That sounds sensible, but fails to acknowledge the power differential between a single person and a billion+ dollar corporation. The latter has armies of people whose sole job is to intentionally make it almost completely impossible to unsubscribe. Resolving this power imbalance is one of the useful properties of government. Pass laws that say it must be very easy to unsubscribe (some states have).
- gardenhedge 3y ago
  Consumer protection laws exist for a reason
- jjulius 3y ago
  >... if you are not getting value out of a subscription (that you signed up for), go and cancel it. You're not wrong, necessarily, but the world isn't as black and white as you would like it to be. There is nuance to things, and not every subscription is as easy to cancel as you seem to think it should be. I cancelled my NYT subscription about a year before California required them to make it a one-click process. I had to sit on the phone with them for 90 minutes in order to make it happen. Various holds, multiple reps pushing different "packages" for me rather than just outright cancelling. I literally had to argue with them in order to make it happen. I had the time then. I didn't mind, though I sure was annoyed as hell. These days, with the job I have, and my outside-of-work life situation being what it is, 90 minutes isn't exactly an easy chunk of time for me to block out just so I can cancel a $25/month subscription. I could end up finding time for it, sure, and that - to your point - is absolutely on me. But it's not as easy to do that now as it was when I'd signed up for it years back. And you know, deep down, just as well as I do, that shit isn't ever as black and white as your attitude would like it to be. You can call it an "excuse" all you want, but that's a disingenuous take.

paxys 3y ago

This is exactly the problem I am talking about. Why is the first instinct to always externalize blame? Why is big government the default solution to everything? How about – if you are not getting value out of a subscription (that you signed up for), go and cancel it. And if you choose not to, don't blame the rest of the world for your money problems.

dvdkon 3y ago
Bluntly, we live with individuals who just suck at finance (this extends to other now-necessary skills too). I want to live in a world where they aren't constantly taken advantage of. Consider it a mental disorder if you need to; we don't have to punish people for being dumb. Besides, regulation of this kind (cancelling subscription) benefits everyone but certain companies. I don't want to waste my time due to someone's misguided free market ideology. Even if navigating endless bureaucracy does make me feel smart. That said, I hate the tendency of regulators to outright ban certain activities. Everyone should be free to throw their money away (by e.g. making risky investments), after signing a lot of very scary forms and showing that they really mean it.
- paxys 3y ago
  If I watch 1 hour of Netflix a month and you watch 300 hundred hours a month, should the government mandate that Netflix charge you 300x more than me? If not, why should the person who watches 0 hours be treated any differently? Ultimately Netflix is creating the plan and publishing its details, and we are all opting into it willingly. Whether we get value from it or not is for us to decide, not the government.
  - dvdkon 3y ago
    Because a person who doesn't watch Netflix for a month gets no value from their money, so not charging them is a clear win with no downsides. Netflix doesn't get as much money, but since they didn't provide any service, I fail to see why that's a problem. The only reasonable price for 0 work is 0€. For anything more it gets complicated.
    - nightski 3y ago
      That's not entirely true though. Netflix had to be prepared to provide that service. Meaning they needed to be able to have the capacity to serve the videos if necessary. Some times just having that capacity has a cost in and of itself. Not to mention they still are producing content whether you watch it or not, and by subscribing you are paying for that content to be created. It's more extreme in other scenarios, like say hospital emergency rooms. But it still applies to services like Netflix imho.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
I'm with you that someone who has been paying for a service despite not using it shouldn't necessarily be entitled for a refund. That said, I wholeheartedly believe that there should be a legal requirement for any subscription to be as easy to cancel as it is to sign up. Gym memberships are notoriously for being criminally difficult to cancel. It's beyond ludicrous that I can sign up for a gym online or at my local gym, but can't cancel the same way. Nope, I have to pick up a form (which only the manager can give you, which means I have to go there when he's there, and he'll be conveniently unavailable), fill it out, mail it, and hope they don't conveniently "lose" it. And even if they don't lose it, they'll just sit on it for 2-3 months before the payments stop.
jjav 3y ago
> How about – if you are not getting value out of a subscription (that you signed up for), go and cancel it. That sounds sensible, but fails to acknowledge the power differential between a single person and a billion+ dollar corporation. The latter has armies of people whose sole job is to intentionally make it almost completely impossible to unsubscribe. Resolving this power imbalance is one of the useful properties of government. Pass laws that say it must be very easy to unsubscribe (some states have).
gardenhedge 3y ago
Consumer protection laws exist for a reason
jjulius 3y ago
>... if you are not getting value out of a subscription (that you signed up for), go and cancel it. You're not wrong, necessarily, but the world isn't as black and white as you would like it to be. There is nuance to things, and not every subscription is as easy to cancel as you seem to think it should be. I cancelled my NYT subscription about a year before California required them to make it a one-click process. I had to sit on the phone with them for 90 minutes in order to make it happen. Various holds, multiple reps pushing different "packages" for me rather than just outright cancelling. I literally had to argue with them in order to make it happen. I had the time then. I didn't mind, though I sure was annoyed as hell. These days, with the job I have, and my outside-of-work life situation being what it is, 90 minutes isn't exactly an easy chunk of time for me to block out just so I can cancel a $25/month subscription. I could end up finding time for it, sure, and that - to your point - is absolutely on me. But it's not as easy to do that now as it was when I'd signed up for it years back. And you know, deep down, just as well as I do, that shit isn't ever as black and white as your attitude would like it to be. You can call it an "excuse" all you want, but that's a disingenuous take.