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Not taking the extreme and unprecedented rate of temperature change into account is either ignorance or disingenuity. https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1

Not taking the extreme and unprecedented rate of temperature change into account is either ignorance or disingenuity. https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/ It's probable that very few species will be able to adapt to such an abrupt change.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Adaptation happens when it's forced to happen.
- 3000000001 3y ago
  Yes, but there is always the second half of “adapt or die” to consider
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Yes, that's how evolution works. Those with a survival advantage succeed. Mother Nature doesn't hand out consolation prizes.
    - hughesjj 3y ago
      It sounds like you're advocating we don't compete and instead just die/go extinct
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  This literally doesn’t mean anything
- hughesjj 3y ago
  They also happen when they're not forced to (competition), and sometimes they don't happen when they're forced to (extinction).
avar 3y ago
The rate at which the temperature is changing is probably at historic highs, but both the current temperature and atmospheric CO2 concentrations are close to historic lows. See [1], that xkcd is picking a really biased starting point by using the last ice age as a baseline. Ice ages themselves being extreme abnormalities from the general historic trend. 1. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Global-Temperature-and-CO2-levels-over-600-million-years-Source-MacRae-2008_fig1_280548391 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Global-Temperature-and-C...
- hatthew 3y ago
  That xkcd is not demonstrating the amount of warming, it is demonstrating the velocity of warming. Historic temperatures on a time scale of millions of years are completely irrelevant to the current discussion of climate change, unless you think we have a chance to evolve into dinosaurs in the next few centuries (/s).
  - avar 3y ago
    The temperature and CO2 concentrations are also unusually low for the Cenozoic Era. That's the post-Dinosaur era (if we're not including avians): https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dynamics-of-global-surface-temperature-during-the-Cenozoic-Era-reconstructed-from-18-O_fig6_309651389 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dynamics-of-global-surfa... The rise of mammals happened almost immediately after the extinction of dinosaurs, when the average surface temperature was around 10°C hotter than today.
    - hatthew 3y ago
      I had hoped that my point was clear without too much elaboration, and that you were joining this discussion in good faith. My understanding: At the moment, climate projections are that within the next few centuries we will reach temperatures not seen since the eocene. The mammals of the eocene were quite small, because larger mammals had trouble surviving the hot climate. While the broad categories of animals that still exist today also existed back then, in aggregate they looked very different from today. Given current trends, the majority of animals of today will be unable to adapt to the new climate, and will die off. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and then also follow that up with correcting the scientific consensus of experts who are forecasting drastic and damaging changes to the earth caused by humans.

SoftTalker 3y ago

Adaptation happens when it's forced to happen.

3000000001 3y ago
Yes, but there is always the second half of “adapt or die” to consider
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Yes, that's how evolution works. Those with a survival advantage succeed. Mother Nature doesn't hand out consolation prizes.
  - hughesjj 3y ago
    It sounds like you're advocating we don't compete and instead just die/go extinct
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
This literally doesn’t mean anything
hughesjj 3y ago
They also happen when they're not forced to (competition), and sometimes they don't happen when they're forced to (extinction).

avar 3y ago

The rate at which the temperature is changing is probably at historic highs, but both the current temperature and atmospheric CO2 concentrations are close to historic lows. See [1], that xkcd is picking a really biased starting point by using the last ice age as a baseline. Ice ages themselves being extreme abnormalities from the general historic trend. 1. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Global-Temperature-and-CO2-levels-over-600-million-years-Source-MacRae-2008_fig1_280548391 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Global-Temperature-and-C...

hatthew 3y ago
That xkcd is not demonstrating the amount of warming, it is demonstrating the velocity of warming. Historic temperatures on a time scale of millions of years are completely irrelevant to the current discussion of climate change, unless you think we have a chance to evolve into dinosaurs in the next few centuries (/s).
- avar 3y ago
  The temperature and CO2 concentrations are also unusually low for the Cenozoic Era. That's the post-Dinosaur era (if we're not including avians): https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dynamics-of-global-surface-temperature-during-the-Cenozoic-Era-reconstructed-from-18-O_fig6_309651389 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Dynamics-of-global-surfa... The rise of mammals happened almost immediately after the extinction of dinosaurs, when the average surface temperature was around 10°C hotter than today.
  - hatthew 3y ago
    I had hoped that my point was clear without too much elaboration, and that you were joining this discussion in good faith. My understanding: At the moment, climate projections are that within the next few centuries we will reach temperatures not seen since the eocene. The mammals of the eocene were quite small, because larger mammals had trouble surviving the hot climate. While the broad categories of animals that still exist today also existed back then, in aggregate they looked very different from today. Given current trends, the majority of animals of today will be unable to adapt to the new climate, and will die off. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and then also follow that up with correcting the scientific consensus of experts who are forecasting drastic and damaging changes to the earth caused by humans.