5 ms·

IMO immigration would focus on merits AND integration more than length of residency. In the past by physically traveling and being in another country is a testa

IMO immigration would focus on merits AND integration more than length of residency. In the past by physically traveling and being in another country is a testament of the financial means and the willingness to adopt the new culture. Nowadays traveling is much easier and many immigrants are simply, put it harshly, colonizing the foreign country instead of adopting it.

aqme28 3y ago
That's sort of built-in already. To stay in Germany for the requisite five years, you're likely going to need a sponsored visa or some other kind of job-based visa (e.g. their freelance visa).
- intrepidpar 3y ago
  Or you apply for asylum and stay forever regardless of the outcome.
  - jstummbillig 3y ago
    How does applying for asylum grant the ability to "stay forever regardless of the outcome"?
    - intrepidpar 3y ago
      Because once you're inside the country you will never get kicked out, unless you actively cooperate with the authorities.
      - lispm 3y ago
        depends, at first the right to stay is time limited
      - jstummbillig 3y ago
        To those interested in the actual data: On June 2023 roughly 280k failed asylum seekers were met with a a yearly deportation volume of around 16k or 6%. Note that "failed asylum seekers" does, for the most part, not mean people actually resisting deportation in any illegal/violent way, but mostly consists of people who are being granted a sort of amnesty ("Duldung") for various reasons in line with german law. This only leaves 54k people that would actually be candidate for deportation in June 2023, which increases the deportation rate to roughly 30%. At this pace deportation for the average failed asylum seeker that is actually traget of deportation shrinks to 3 years. * https://www.dw.com/en/germany-migrant-deportations-rise-sharply/a-66578402#:~:text=Deportations%20of%20failed%20asylum%20seekers%20increased%20by%20more,deported%2C%201%2C664%20were%20women%2C%20and%201%2C375%20were%20minors https://www.dw.com/en/germany-migrant-deportations-rise-shar....
  - aqme28 3y ago
    I imagine that that's a relatively small percent of immigration, and should follow its own separate rules based more on humanitarian needs.
j_maffe 3y ago
The description of people migrating from developing countries (that to a large extent are still reeling from the West's previous colonization efforts and current neo-colonialist control) as "colonizing" the foreign country angers me on so many levels I can't even explain it in words. I hope one day humanity will surpass its empathic barrier of societies. It might be too much to hope for, I suppose.
- ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
  as long as inequality exists most people will dehumanize other humans for attempting to achieve equality. And then these same people will cry hoarse about Jeff bezos and Zuckerberg and bill gates etc. "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." There is still a silver lining though. EU (and specifically Germany) ruined any optimistic future of theirs by severing energy with Russia and allowing US to bomb the nordstream pipeline. The effects of de-industrialization due to higher energy costs along with reduced usage of Euro in international usage is not going to paint a pretty picture for EU in the long term future. This allows third world countries to equalize quickly and hopefully in a generation from now we have less dehumanizing language for people trying to seek a better life for their families.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  That’s exactly what is happening though, regardless of how much it is angering you. Millions of people moving to another country is colonization no matter how you want to spin it.
  - piva00 3y ago
    Not exactly, people moving without trying to take control is just settling, when they try to overtake control instead of assimilating into the culture they immigrated to then I think it can be considered some form of colonisation.
    - nescioquid 3y ago
      In The Prince, Machiavelli describes the use of settlers to exert indirect control over an area. One benefit of this approach is that the values and attitudes of the settlers will spread to or exert influence over the locals. At the very least, it destabilizes the existing order. If a group doesn't assimilate, it looks like a ghetto or a "colony". Settling, on the other hand, is inherently about control.

aqme28 3y ago

That's sort of built-in already. To stay in Germany for the requisite five years, you're likely going to need a sponsored visa or some other kind of job-based visa (e.g. their freelance visa).

intrepidpar 3y ago
Or you apply for asylum and stay forever regardless of the outcome.
- jstummbillig 3y ago
  How does applying for asylum grant the ability to "stay forever regardless of the outcome"?
  - intrepidpar 3y ago
    Because once you're inside the country you will never get kicked out, unless you actively cooperate with the authorities.
    - lispm 3y ago
      depends, at first the right to stay is time limited
    - jstummbillig 3y ago
      To those interested in the actual data: On June 2023 roughly 280k failed asylum seekers were met with a a yearly deportation volume of around 16k or 6%. Note that "failed asylum seekers" does, for the most part, not mean people actually resisting deportation in any illegal/violent way, but mostly consists of people who are being granted a sort of amnesty ("Duldung") for various reasons in line with german law. This only leaves 54k people that would actually be candidate for deportation in June 2023, which increases the deportation rate to roughly 30%. At this pace deportation for the average failed asylum seeker that is actually traget of deportation shrinks to 3 years. * https://www.dw.com/en/germany-migrant-deportations-rise-sharply/a-66578402#:~:text=Deportations%20of%20failed%20asylum%20seekers%20increased%20by%20more,deported%2C%201%2C664%20were%20women%2C%20and%201%2C375%20were%20minors https://www.dw.com/en/germany-migrant-deportations-rise-shar....
- aqme28 3y ago
  I imagine that that's a relatively small percent of immigration, and should follow its own separate rules based more on humanitarian needs.

j_maffe 3y ago

The description of people migrating from developing countries (that to a large extent are still reeling from the West's previous colonization efforts and current neo-colonialist control) as "colonizing" the foreign country angers me on so many levels I can't even explain it in words. I hope one day humanity will surpass its empathic barrier of societies. It might be too much to hope for, I suppose.

ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
as long as inequality exists most people will dehumanize other humans for attempting to achieve equality. And then these same people will cry hoarse about Jeff bezos and Zuckerberg and bill gates etc. "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." There is still a silver lining though. EU (and specifically Germany) ruined any optimistic future of theirs by severing energy with Russia and allowing US to bomb the nordstream pipeline. The effects of de-industrialization due to higher energy costs along with reduced usage of Euro in international usage is not going to paint a pretty picture for EU in the long term future. This allows third world countries to equalize quickly and hopefully in a generation from now we have less dehumanizing language for people trying to seek a better life for their families.
edgyquant 3y ago
That’s exactly what is happening though, regardless of how much it is angering you. Millions of people moving to another country is colonization no matter how you want to spin it.
- piva00 3y ago
  Not exactly, people moving without trying to take control is just settling, when they try to overtake control instead of assimilating into the culture they immigrated to then I think it can be considered some form of colonisation.
  - nescioquid 3y ago
    In The Prince, Machiavelli describes the use of settlers to exert indirect control over an area. One benefit of this approach is that the values and attitudes of the settlers will spread to or exert influence over the locals. At the very least, it destabilizes the existing order. If a group doesn't assimilate, it looks like a ghetto or a "colony". Settling, on the other hand, is inherently about control.