4 ms·

I used to work in heavy industry and did a lot of work in Canada (I am an American). Canada always had the worst security to go through because the same thing

by lbhdc 3y ago

I used to work in heavy industry and did a lot of work in Canada (I am an American). Canada always had the worst security to go through because the same thing this guy is experiencing everyone crossing the boarder for work got the same thing from boarder security. Anyone who had been arrested would get held at customs for a few hours, and occasionally over night. Basically you would get interrogated by a boarder guard, and the boarder guards would complain that they don't convict people of crimes in the US while asking about 20 year old arrest records. I kind of assumed they were just terrible to foreigners coming in, but to do it to their own citizens is pretty awful.

dghlsakjg 3y ago
If you think Canadian border guards are bad, its because you've never seen how American border guards treat non-citizens. If you tried to enter the US with a criminal record, there is a VERY good chance that you would not be allowed in, and would be handed a 5-10 year ban. Most countries do not allow visa-less entry to convicted criminals. The fact that Canada let your co-workers in at all is at the discretion of the border guard. Canada is very clear about the steps that those with a criminal record need to go through prior to applying for entry at the border. It sounds like your coworkers showed up to the border without the necessary preparation and were allowed to enter at the officer's kindness/discretion in spite of their criminal pasts and lack of documentation. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/inadmissibility/overcome-criminal-convictions.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...
- lbhdc 3y ago
  I had to shepard many South Americans and Europeans through American boarder security for this same job. I found Canadas process to be much more restrictive. They similarly handed out decade+ bans. We had a legal team prepping the paperwork for these trips, they had the correct paperwork.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    Did the people entering the US from Europe/South America have criminal records? Part of the reason that it is harder for an American with a criminal record entering Canada is the fact that it is visa free. A convicted American at the Canadian border has likely not gone back and forth with immigration authorities, or had an interview at the embassy like a South American at the US border would. By the time a European or South American arrives at the border they have already submitted the paperwork to an embassy (or received an ESTA/visa waiver), and have been given permission. Without convincing proof that they are eligible to enter the USA, the airline won't even let them on the plane. The reality is that it is perfectly reasonable for a country to deny entry or investigate a convicted criminal before granting the privilege of entering the country. Doubly so when the purpose of entry is for work. As a non convict, I had to prove to Canada that I could support myself and would not be a burden on the medical or other social systems in addition to an FBI background check, and a variety of other paperwork before I was granted residency. It took upwards of a year for all that. By what reasoning should Canada prioritize or not investigate people that have, in the past, been a burden or danger to their society. Entry by non permanent residents or citizens is a privilege, and I think it is perfectly reasonable for a country to ensure that a convicted criminal won't pose a danger or burden.
    - lbhdc 3y ago
      Everyone had to pass a security clearance that prevented them from accepting people with criminal convictions, but prior arrests with no-convictions were fine. Our work required Canadian work visas for us to operate in Canada, and everyone had the correct passport stamps before ever leaving (this again was handled by the legal team). We were getting hassled over the arrests without convictions (this was only air travel, we never drove). I am fine with countries doing whatever the need to. I think citizens getting subjected to similar treatment (tfa) pretty unreasonable.
      - dghlsakjg 3y ago
        Gotcha. I imagined you were driving a busload of roughnecks with convictions to the oil fields. It is absolutely BS that an arrest with no conviction would lead to delays at the border.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  The reality is that if you expect immigration trouble, you should always enter through an airport and never a border crossing.
  - beaeglebeached 3y ago
    I was on some kind of watchlist for awhile ( fought in foreign militia ) and you get the extremes at the land border. Most times things are much better. But when they're worse, it's WAY worse. (Although to be fair at airport was only place CBP told me they'd deny entry to the country to me US passport holder)
- beaeglebeached 3y ago
  Outside of five eyes most countries don't know dick about your record, and usually don't even ask. Our neighbor Mexico often doesn't even look at your ID. US and Canada share immigration info, so they have unusual overlap.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    This is true for the minority of people with passports that allow visa-less travel. Try traveling somewhere on a Peruvian/Ghanian/lao passport. You will be asked about your criminal history, and you will need to produce documentation to back it up.
    - beaeglebeached 3y ago
      Those countries don't have nearly as many 'criminals' so it's nowhere near as burdensome. Something like 25+% of Americans have some sort of criminal history, with a vast volume of laws that are easy to unwittingly break. I don't have the data for someplace like Ghana but I wager the odds of having a record there is easily 1/10th.

by lbhdc 3y ago

dghlsakjg 3y ago

If you think Canadian border guards are bad, its because you've never seen how American border guards treat non-citizens. If you tried to enter the US with a criminal record, there is a VERY good chance that you would not be allowed in, and would be handed a 5-10 year ban. Most countries do not allow visa-less entry to convicted criminals. The fact that Canada let your co-workers in at all is at the discretion of the border guard. Canada is very clear about the steps that those with a criminal record need to go through prior to applying for entry at the border. It sounds like your coworkers showed up to the border without the necessary preparation and were allowed to enter at the officer's kindness/discretion in spite of their criminal pasts and lack of documentation. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/inadmissibility/overcome-criminal-convictions.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...

lbhdc 3y ago
I had to shepard many South Americans and Europeans through American boarder security for this same job. I found Canadas process to be much more restrictive. They similarly handed out decade+ bans. We had a legal team prepping the paperwork for these trips, they had the correct paperwork.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  Did the people entering the US from Europe/South America have criminal records? Part of the reason that it is harder for an American with a criminal record entering Canada is the fact that it is visa free. A convicted American at the Canadian border has likely not gone back and forth with immigration authorities, or had an interview at the embassy like a South American at the US border would. By the time a European or South American arrives at the border they have already submitted the paperwork to an embassy (or received an ESTA/visa waiver), and have been given permission. Without convincing proof that they are eligible to enter the USA, the airline won't even let them on the plane. The reality is that it is perfectly reasonable for a country to deny entry or investigate a convicted criminal before granting the privilege of entering the country. Doubly so when the purpose of entry is for work. As a non convict, I had to prove to Canada that I could support myself and would not be a burden on the medical or other social systems in addition to an FBI background check, and a variety of other paperwork before I was granted residency. It took upwards of a year for all that. By what reasoning should Canada prioritize or not investigate people that have, in the past, been a burden or danger to their society. Entry by non permanent residents or citizens is a privilege, and I think it is perfectly reasonable for a country to ensure that a convicted criminal won't pose a danger or burden.
  - lbhdc 3y ago
    Everyone had to pass a security clearance that prevented them from accepting people with criminal convictions, but prior arrests with no-convictions were fine. Our work required Canadian work visas for us to operate in Canada, and everyone had the correct passport stamps before ever leaving (this again was handled by the legal team). We were getting hassled over the arrests without convictions (this was only air travel, we never drove). I am fine with countries doing whatever the need to. I think citizens getting subjected to similar treatment (tfa) pretty unreasonable.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      Gotcha. I imagined you were driving a busload of roughnecks with convictions to the oil fields. It is absolutely BS that an arrest with no conviction would lead to delays at the border.
whimsicalism 3y ago
The reality is that if you expect immigration trouble, you should always enter through an airport and never a border crossing.
- beaeglebeached 3y ago
  I was on some kind of watchlist for awhile ( fought in foreign militia ) and you get the extremes at the land border. Most times things are much better. But when they're worse, it's WAY worse. (Although to be fair at airport was only place CBP told me they'd deny entry to the country to me US passport holder)
beaeglebeached 3y ago
Outside of five eyes most countries don't know dick about your record, and usually don't even ask. Our neighbor Mexico often doesn't even look at your ID. US and Canada share immigration info, so they have unusual overlap.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  This is true for the minority of people with passports that allow visa-less travel. Try traveling somewhere on a Peruvian/Ghanian/lao passport. You will be asked about your criminal history, and you will need to produce documentation to back it up.
  - beaeglebeached 3y ago
    Those countries don't have nearly as many 'criminals' so it's nowhere near as burdensome. Something like 25+% of Americans have some sort of criminal history, with a vast volume of laws that are easy to unwittingly break. I don't have the data for someplace like Ghana but I wager the odds of having a record there is easily 1/10th.