16 ms·
System76 Thelio Major Powered by AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7000 Series Performance
- juggertao 3y agoThe system is $10k, the CPU costs $5K, the rest of components at most $3K, so I guess that means $2K profit on each system?
- marcusb 3y agoAs it turns out, the cost of designing, testing, and selling a product include more than component costs.
- crowcroft 3y agoEven if that math is correct, it's a bit naive to consider that $2k 'profit', contribution margin might be a better definition.
- brucethemoose2 3y agoSystem 76 laptops are usually very pricey, but this is actually a reasonable margin for a good desktop system assembler.
- DyslexicAtheist 3y agoAFAIK they are just rebranded "Clevo Computer" systems. On the downside if you order from Clevo you will be asked for upfront payment and then you have to go to court to get your money back :D ... so ordering from system76 gives you at least some assurance that you won't get stiffed.
- bluGill 3y agoThey are a large enough customer of Clevo that they get consulted on product design and changes. When Clevo ships something to system76, system76 already knows what hardware is there and that they have drivers for it. If you buy elsewhere it might look the same and seem to have the same specs, but Clevo might have put in some chip without linux drivers.
- DyslexicAtheist 3y agodo they ship ISO keyboards meanwhile? I'd rather buy system76 but US ASCII keyboard is a deal-breaker. which are the design differences in hardware? I do not see any real differences other than branding which isn't also offered by a bunch of other clevo resellers. having secureboot and system76 firmware would be a huge benefit and in my view the only value-add but that I you can do yourself because it's FOSS and there is no difference in HW
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- trelane 3y agoThere's a lot. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414 You may find reading like that informative. It's perhaps not surprising that the laptops that Clevo ships vs those they make for System76 are different. The fact that system76 ships coreboot and an open EC firmware should be a first clue. Also, for the keyboard: Many or most of their keyboards are configurable these days. See https://github.com/pop-os/keyboard-configurator https://github.com/pop-os/keyboard-configurator The term for "the company that actually manufactures the computers for another company that sells them" is Original Design Manufacturer, ODM. All companies have them. https://www.unleashedsoftware.com/blog/oem-vs-odm-explained-whats-best-for-manufacturers https://www.unleashedsoftware.com/blog/oem-vs-odm-explained-... Dell's supplier list is at Public Supplier List - Dell https://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/corp-comm/en/Documents/dell-suppliers.pdf https://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/corp-comm/en/D...
- taf2 3y agoIt comes assembled? Presumably that means also it was tested and has some assurance that it works… I imagine they have some labor cost in there too
- Throw84949 3y ago> This System76 Thelio Major review sample was configured with the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7980X 64-core processor, 4 x 32GB DDR5 Micron MTC20F1045S1RC48BA2 DIMMs, 1TB Crucial T700 CT1000T700SSD5 NVMe SSD, and AMD Radeon PRO W7900 graphics. Graphic card is like $4000. Board for threadripper could easily be $1000.
- juggertao 3y agoThe $10K system cost I mentioned is not for the review unit, but for a cheaper configuration with a Radeon RX 7600 GPU ($250). See last page.
- slowmovintarget 3y agoAnd you can go to their GitHub repos and view all of the specifications for the hardware (which is under an open hardware license), look at all the driver code, and follow their development of PopOS! I bought from System76 in large part to support this kind of organization.
- CivBase 3y agoA 25% markup on component cost is shockingly low to me considering the work that must have gone into developing and assembling this. Not to mention the development that goes into the OS. If I had a good use case for this product, I don't think I'd be unhappy with the sticker price.
- 999900000999 3y agoIt's kinda silly though. Linux is not a good OS if you aren't into tinkering. Installing your own OS shouldn't be hard for any Linux user. Now I guess if your expenses it anyway it doesn't matter.
- bluGill 3y agoI can write drivers, but it would take me a long time (I've never written driver so factor in a learning curve). Or I can select parts that linux has drivers for - but again it would take me time. I can assemble a computer, but it will take me time. My time is not free.
- 999900000999 3y agoIt takes at most 4 hours to put a computer together even if you're new. If your time is worth more than 500$ an hour congrats. Then you can have a shop put it together for 150$ to 200$. What are you going to do when it's time to upgrade? Spend a few thousand on a new CPU and keep going or throw it out and buy a new pre built?
- Finnucane 3y agoThe System76 machine bested Phoronix's DIY setup. So clearly they aren't equivalent.
- 999900000999 3y agoI don't see how this is possible assuming all the parts are identical. If I'm too afraid to build my own computer I'll buy a Mac
- stagger87 3y agoYou don't know how much they are paying for components. (Hint: It's not retail)
- cjbgkagh 3y agoDealing with customers is a PITA and dealing with suppliers is a PITA, at a 20% markup they're doing you a favor. The one of the reasons bulk discounts exist is that each interaction with a customer is expensive as is the process of finding them. I mainly sell software but I offer customers hardware to go with it as a favor to them at ~30% markup and it is usually much cheaper than what they can get elsewhere - keeping things under one roof on on one contract makes things easier and we make enough money on the software side we can safely eat potential extra warranty costs on hardware. You'd be surprised but if you let them customers will try to run server software on a 10+ year old laptop and then complain to you when it crashes.
- ericfrazier 3y agoThey specially tune their own drivers, firmware, etc.
- chrisa 3y agoI bought a System76 desktop a couple of years ago with an rtx 3090 for some AI work and have been super happy with it. It was a bit expensive, but everything "just works", it's super well built, and I've had no issues for 2 years. They definitely know what they're doing (not affiliated, I just like it)
- hogu 3y agoTheir support is really good to. I've never had customer support help me sort out linux kernel issues before. We get all developers at our company System 76 linux laptops as their primary dev machine (Lemur Pros with 40 GB of ram)
- simfree 3y agoThat is good to hear! Framework has not been helpful on either minor or major issues when I've tried working with them, even the forums comingle AMD and Intel laptops without clear distinction muddying the waters as to what issues are relevant to a given user.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lytedev 3y agoI've had the opposite experience, personally. There's a ton of helpful information on their forum both from community members and employees. Getting NixOS on my AMD Framework 13 took some doing and the forum was super helpful when it came to various issues. That said, I _do_ agree that the information isn't as well organized as a result of the nature of its creation.
- kwerk 3y agoI use Pop OS on a custom build and have a similar “just works”. Looking at S76 hardware for my next upgrade now.
- zozbot234 3y agoI'm sorry but nVidia proprietary driver and "just works" doesn't belong in the same sentence. Every Kernel version update is a crapshoot. Will need to wait for the new nVidia opensource support that's supposedly around the corner, any day now.
- nickstinemates 3y agoAll developers at our company get one of these delivered as part of their onboarding. They're pretty amazing. My only gripe is I re-imaged the machine and getting all of the drivers working and configurable is kind of a pain in the ass (the byproduct being the fans are going 100% always) I treat mine like a server, sitting in a rack. I ssh into it to create ad-hoc test/dev environments. It's really fast and reliable. Love it. Having 64 cores and 512GB RAM is a treat.
- spaceywilly 3y agoI worked for a company a few years ago that issued me a System76 laptop. It was ok. Weighed a lot and was made of cheap plastic, and it also had issues with the fan. However, for a Linux laptop with open source hardware and firmware I was ok with putting up with those niggles. Glad to see they are still rolling along.
- nickstinemates 3y agoI have no experience or interest in their laptops, personally. My laptop needs are very different from my compute needs.
- bmer 3y agoWhere do you work? Is it normal to be able to afford to bling out like this on new employees?
- nickstinemates 3y agoSystem Initiative ( https://www.systeminit.com/ https://www.systeminit.com/ )
- gumballindie 3y agoSounds like a nice place to work at. > the fans are going 100% always Can this not be configured via the bios? I imagine there should be a fan curve setting somewhere in there.
- ShrugLife 3y agoMy work has had some pretty poor experiences with their laptops. 2 different models both have had thermal issues where the computer locks up during basic web browsing, agnostic of the Linux distro.
- whateveracct 3y agoNote that System76 laptops are not built or designed by them. They're whitelabeled. These Thelio desktops are in-house, and they are way better than the laptops.
- buzzdenver 3y agoThat's great info. I have an Adder laptop and both my hardware and software experience are poor...
- trelane 3y agoNot quite correct. They're built by Clevo, but they're co-designed. That said, the described symptoms are something that should get fixed by calling support.
- pram 3y agoI really like the funnel for the CPU cooler, always wondered why more cases don’t create air barriers between components like that.
- Kon-Peki 3y agoYou would have liked the Apple Power Mac towers during the PowerPC days https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G5#/media/File%3AApple_Power_Macintosh_G5_2003_7982.jpg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G5#/media/File%3AA...
- vondur 3y agoI do like the aesthetics of their cases. They look really cool.
- phyalow 3y agoI have a top of the line System76 Laptop collecting dust. Completely broken multi monitor support (yes I tried the support route), it overheats underload, it fails to sleep properly, its extremely heavy and is made out of cheap plastic, and the keyboard well… On the otherhand my Macbook Pro is a superb dev machine.
- sybercecurity 3y agoI had a similar problem when I got one - died 2 weeks after warranty/return window ran out so I was left with an expensive paperweight. Which is a shame because I wanted to like them.
- whateveracct 3y agoTo be fair, the System76 laptops aren't comparable to the desktops (Thelio line). The laptops are whitelabeled iirc. Whereas the Thelio is designed in-house. I love my Thelio personally - nice form factor + easy to open up and add drives etc.
- trelane 3y agoThey're working on an in-house laptop. https://github.com/system76/virgo https://github.com/system76/virgo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36115413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36115413
- whateveracct 3y agoIntriguing! I recently got a Ryzen Framework 13 and I'd be impressed if they can hit that level of quality.
- yencabulator 3y agoAnd my wife's 2021 Macbook Air fails to sleep if it's connected to a Dell monitor. On the other hand my Framework is a superb dev machine. Apple fanboys, they just can't resist barging into threads talking about how much of a fanboy they are.
- Sweepi 3y ago(Prebuilt) ECC RAM Speeds are always disappointing.
- bjoli 3y agoBut: imagine having a company selling workstations and tuning your memory a bit too much on the fast side. Having you computer behave incorrectly is much worse than it just being a little slower that a similarly specced computer.
- Sweepi 3y agoWell, I would love to spend extra money for them to verify and guarantee that the RAM is stable at e.g. DDR5-5600. However, maybe I am not part of a big group with this one, and since I am currently not in the market for this kind of workstation, maybe the target audience would literally be zero.
- cyberglitch1 3y agoPurchased a system 76 Galago 2 a couple years ago. The motherboard failed just over one year old. System 76 would not replace or give me a discount on a replacement board. Ended up throwing the thing away and will never buy fron them again.
- sliken 3y agoSo you paid for 1 year of warranty, and expected them to give you free labor for a replacement or a discount on a part replacement? Not sure any other company would do that either, if it's out of warranty you pay parts and labor, that's just the way it works.
- m463 3y agoit was confusing in the middle to get "DIY Build" in the middle of the benchmarks. does that help the review?
- 1oooqooq 3y agoctrl+f "ecc": no matches. meh. still a consumer laptop.
- yencabulator 3y agoThis article is about a tower desktop that has ECC RAM.