3 ms·

> Overall, they calculated that the cost of electricity from the grids would be between €77 and €94 per megawatt-hour delivered. That is well within the range t

> Overall, they calculated that the cost of electricity from the grids would be between €77 and €94 per megawatt-hour delivered. That is well within the range that grid operators pay today to balance supply and demand via natural gas-fired power plants. Their modeling found that the methanol backup is also 29 to 43 percent cheaper than that of alternate grids backed up with hydrogen Interesting! I’d like to see the comparison with gas peakers. Seems they are on the order of $400/MWh, and utilized something like 5-10%. So if the numbers above are fully-baked including capital cost this seems like a potential big win. On the TANSTAAFL principle, what’s the catch?

engineer_22 3y ago
From the article it sounds like it's "potentially" economical, ready for large scale testing. It's also a complex process - they're talking about a closed loop system with a supercritical carbon dioxide carrier stream and direct injection of liquid ox. Lots of pumps and heat exchangers - lots of maintenance. Unclear if they're taking into account all of that in their economic calculations, if they're being a little vague in order to pursue funding. EDIT: I am pro-technology, and not questioning their process. The article does appear to me to be an advertisement.
vondur 3y ago
Sorry, had to look up TANSTAFFL... There's no such thing as a free lunch. Totally makes sense now.
tomatocracy 3y ago
The Eur77-94 figure is a simulated average whole grid cost of electricity for a hypothetical grid built around renewables and storage only when including some of this type of storage, not the cost of this type of storage. They estimate LCOS for this storage at Eur309-366/MWh according to the article in Joule which is linked. I couldn't immediately see their estimates for cost of wind/solar and other types of storage which feed into the whole grid cost.

engineer_22 3y ago

From the article it sounds like it's "potentially" economical, ready for large scale testing. It's also a complex process - they're talking about a closed loop system with a supercritical carbon dioxide carrier stream and direct injection of liquid ox. Lots of pumps and heat exchangers - lots of maintenance. Unclear if they're taking into account all of that in their economic calculations, if they're being a little vague in order to pursue funding. EDIT: I am pro-technology, and not questioning their process. The article does appear to me to be an advertisement.

vondur 3y ago

Sorry, had to look up TANSTAFFL... There's no such thing as a free lunch. Totally makes sense now.

tomatocracy 3y ago

The Eur77-94 figure is a simulated average whole grid cost of electricity for a hypothetical grid built around renewables and storage only when including some of this type of storage, not the cost of this type of storage. They estimate LCOS for this storage at Eur309-366/MWh according to the article in Joule which is linked. I couldn't immediately see their estimates for cost of wind/solar and other types of storage which feed into the whole grid cost.