5 ms·

Some people aren't aware it's de-facto legal to go into a SF store and steal $949 worth of stuff and leave and there's nothing anyone will do. Shop owners who c

Some people aren't aware it's de-facto legal to go into a SF store and steal $949 worth of stuff and leave and there's nothing anyone will do. Shop owners who call the police will get in trouble themselves. Unbelievable that it got to this in the first place but that's a political mono-culture for you, they get to try wild and different policies without push back hoping for positive counterintuitive results that somehow lessens crime and improves equity but all they're doing is creating food deserts as business flees.

mc32 3y ago
It is sad. A minority of people in SF had been saying for years that the situation was getting out of hand -but the other side would scoff and accuse critics of being of all things Republicans, not progressive, anti-whatever they could come up with. Willie Brown may have been corrupt, but SF would never have spiraled like it did under his leadership. Towards the end of Newsom's tenure we saw cracks --there was always the homeless who no matter what they did, it was never their fault, the drug addicted kids in the Haight too. I remember having cops investigate if I was stopped on the wrong side of the street (parked facing the wrong way), or I was stopped in an area too long. It was annoying, sure. But it kept crime down. It took many years to get to the nadir, and it will take years to recover as well.
BobaFloutist 3y ago
This is misinformation. CA raised the threshold for felony grand theft from $400 (which is what it had been since 1982) to $950. $950 is still lower than 1. The threshold as it was originally set, corrected for inflation 2. The threshold in 40 other states and for the federal government. It is not legal to steal up to $949 dollars of goods from a store, it's still a misdemeanor which is, despite the name, a pretty serious crime. It's just not a felony. Police love to use it as an excuse not to do their jobs though, so the misinformation has thrived and spread among those who have strong feelings about criminal justice reform.
- mc32 3y ago
  Well, there is more to it than that. Today you cannot: Charge them with petty theft with priors, nor can you charge them with burglary. But now it's purely a misdemeanor and cannot be charged with petty theft nor obviously a felony. So, while other states have higher thresholds, the thieves can be still be put in jail and fined for misdemeanor offenses, whereas in Calif, prosecutors are loath to file changes for anything below the felony threshold. That means in Calif stealing 949 is very unlikely to land you in Jail. In other states, even if you steal less than the felony threshold, you can get significantly fined and jailed for the misdemeanor[1] --that makes Calif more attractive to shoplifting gangs. [1]Occasionally you get an 9-year old kid in the news because the kids was arrested for stealing a "candy bar"
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    I don't know what you're talking about with petty theft. You can still absolutely charge someone with petty theft or petty theft with priors. >So, while other states have higher thresholds, the thieves can be still be put in jail and fined for misdemeanor offenses, whereas in Calif, prosecutors are loath to file changes for anything below the felony threshold. Ok, so your problem is with prosecutors, not with the $950 threshold. Are you sure that CA prosecutors are uniquely unwilling to charge people for non-felony theft? >stealing 949 is very unlikely to land you in Jail. This is a very different claim than "It is legal." There are a lot of illegal things that are unlikely to land you in jail.
    - mc32 3y ago
      >I don't know what you're talking about with petty theft. You can still absolutely charge someone with petty theft or petty theft with priors. CAPC: Say thefts of $950 dollars or less is shoplifting. You cannot add petty theft with priors to it. >Ok, so your problem is with prosecutors, not with the $950 threshold. Are you sure that CA prosecutors are uniquely unwilling to charge people for non-felony theft? The law heavily disincentivizes it. And your supes, mayors, and activists push back against prosecutors using the full extent of the law. Often citizens have pass additional laws because existing laws are ignored. >This is a very different claim than "It is legal." That's a red herring. I made no such claims. It would be imbecilic to believe it were legal. Other states jail and or fine shoplifters under the felony threshold, Calif does not and has led to increased opportunistic as well as organized shoplifting.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  they didn't claim it was legal, they claimed it was de facto legal. It was not merely an adjustment to keep up with inflation, it was a whole social justice campaign to keep people from going to jail for stealing the proverbial loaf of bread. Basically look the other way, poor folk are just trying to survive. It all gets flipped in the open on mission st. Even in the case that it's not just a ticketed offense (getting a ticket for robbing a pharmacy is wild to me) the cops could arrest somebody and see them back on the street a few days later, you'd stop doing your job too if your actions had no effect on the outcome.

mc32 3y ago

It is sad. A minority of people in SF had been saying for years that the situation was getting out of hand -but the other side would scoff and accuse critics of being of all things Republicans, not progressive, anti-whatever they could come up with. Willie Brown may have been corrupt, but SF would never have spiraled like it did under his leadership. Towards the end of Newsom's tenure we saw cracks --there was always the homeless who no matter what they did, it was never their fault, the drug addicted kids in the Haight too. I remember having cops investigate if I was stopped on the wrong side of the street (parked facing the wrong way), or I was stopped in an area too long. It was annoying, sure. But it kept crime down. It took many years to get to the nadir, and it will take years to recover as well.

BobaFloutist 3y ago

This is misinformation. CA raised the threshold for felony grand theft from $400 (which is what it had been since 1982) to $950. $950 is still lower than 1. The threshold as it was originally set, corrected for inflation 2. The threshold in 40 other states and for the federal government. It is not legal to steal up to $949 dollars of goods from a store, it's still a misdemeanor which is, despite the name, a pretty serious crime. It's just not a felony. Police love to use it as an excuse not to do their jobs though, so the misinformation has thrived and spread among those who have strong feelings about criminal justice reform.

mc32 3y ago
Well, there is more to it than that. Today you cannot: Charge them with petty theft with priors, nor can you charge them with burglary. But now it's purely a misdemeanor and cannot be charged with petty theft nor obviously a felony. So, while other states have higher thresholds, the thieves can be still be put in jail and fined for misdemeanor offenses, whereas in Calif, prosecutors are loath to file changes for anything below the felony threshold. That means in Calif stealing 949 is very unlikely to land you in Jail. In other states, even if you steal less than the felony threshold, you can get significantly fined and jailed for the misdemeanor[1] --that makes Calif more attractive to shoplifting gangs. [1]Occasionally you get an 9-year old kid in the news because the kids was arrested for stealing a "candy bar"
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  I don't know what you're talking about with petty theft. You can still absolutely charge someone with petty theft or petty theft with priors. >So, while other states have higher thresholds, the thieves can be still be put in jail and fined for misdemeanor offenses, whereas in Calif, prosecutors are loath to file changes for anything below the felony threshold. Ok, so your problem is with prosecutors, not with the $950 threshold. Are you sure that CA prosecutors are uniquely unwilling to charge people for non-felony theft? >stealing 949 is very unlikely to land you in Jail. This is a very different claim than "It is legal." There are a lot of illegal things that are unlikely to land you in jail.
  - mc32 3y ago
    >I don't know what you're talking about with petty theft. You can still absolutely charge someone with petty theft or petty theft with priors. CAPC: Say thefts of $950 dollars or less is shoplifting. You cannot add petty theft with priors to it. >Ok, so your problem is with prosecutors, not with the $950 threshold. Are you sure that CA prosecutors are uniquely unwilling to charge people for non-felony theft? The law heavily disincentivizes it. And your supes, mayors, and activists push back against prosecutors using the full extent of the law. Often citizens have pass additional laws because existing laws are ignored. >This is a very different claim than "It is legal." That's a red herring. I made no such claims. It would be imbecilic to believe it were legal. Other states jail and or fine shoplifters under the felony threshold, Calif does not and has led to increased opportunistic as well as organized shoplifting.
jazzyjackson 3y ago
they didn't claim it was legal, they claimed it was de facto legal. It was not merely an adjustment to keep up with inflation, it was a whole social justice campaign to keep people from going to jail for stealing the proverbial loaf of bread. Basically look the other way, poor folk are just trying to survive. It all gets flipped in the open on mission st. Even in the case that it's not just a ticketed offense (getting a ticket for robbing a pharmacy is wild to me) the cops could arrest somebody and see them back on the street a few days later, you'd stop doing your job too if your actions had no effect on the outcome.