5 ms·

I was in Paris this past summer for the first time in a long time. In fact, it was my first time out of the US in a long time. I was stunned/disappointed by the

I was in Paris this past summer for the first time in a long time. In fact, it was my first time out of the US in a long time. I was stunned/disappointed by the fact that even in high-end produce stores, all the apple varieties were pretty much exactly the same ones we have in the US. Gala, Fuji, Red Delicious, Golden, Granny Smith, etc., the familiar line-up. The whole time I was in Paris, I did not encounter an unconventional apple type, and I went to many produce and grocery stores during my time there. I assumed that produce monoculture wouldn't have hit France as hard as it's hit the US... but no, it seemed just as bad there.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jfengel 3y ago
I can't speak to the grocery stores, but I did briefly work on an apple farm in Calvados. They had two dozen different kinds of apples, not one of which I'd ever heard of. (I did once get a very lame baguette at a Monoprix once. Blew my mind that the French tolerated it.) One possibility is that you were there out of season. We've gotten very good at preserving apples for all year, but they are harvested only for a month or so. It takes industrial climate control to make them taste good after about December.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  I understand that this probably refers to a French grocery store of some sort, but I can't get the image out of my head of you ordering a baguette off of the localized French version of https://www.monoprice.com/ https://www.monoprice.com/.
  - albert180 3y ago
    Monoprix is a strange store that sells Food, Clothes, Household Items etc...
    - estebank 3y ago
      Kind of like Target.
    - conradfr 3y ago
      Isn't that most supermarkets?
      - albert180 3y ago
        Nope, at least in the other supermarkets it's more like 80-90% Food the rest is the other stuff, in Monoprix it's the other way around
- kansface 3y ago
  > Calvados As in, where the brandy comes from? I never knew it was eponymous. Booze is of course the original technology for preserving apples and fruit in general. My understanding is that was the original intended purpose for our older orchards included those planted by Johnny Appleseed.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    The calvados beverage is not only made in the Calvados departement. There are 3 different appelations: - regular calvados made from cider from different parts of Normandy - calvados Pays d'Auge which must be made from cider of that eponymous Pays d'Auge area (which is within the Calvados departement) - calvados du Domfrontais which is made from cider of the Domfront area in the Orne departement.
  - dminor 3y ago
    Since he didn't graft, the fruit from the trees he planted would have mostly been unpleasant to eat. But still fit to ferment alcohol from, or feed to livestock.
  - fuzztester 3y ago
    >Johnny Appleseed Reminds me of Luther Burbank: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank
- kergonath 3y ago
  > I did once get a very lame baguette at a Monoprix once. Blew my mind that the French tolerated it. We tend to buy bread in supermarkets only in case of dire emergency. Statistically, there probably was a much better bakery around the corner from that Monoprix. > It takes industrial climate control to make them taste good after about December. I remember my grand mother keeping apples in her cellar (cold but not freezing, dry, close to constant temperature year round). The apple she put there were fantastic long into winter. They would not look great, slightly shrunk and with wrinkles, but the taste was excellent. Industrial climate control is to keep them look good, not to keep them taste good.
giraffe_lady 3y ago
In most of france produce markets are where you'd go for this, but you're rigidly tied to the seasonal production. So you can get all kinds of apples! In september and october. And no apples at any other time. I'm not sure this applies in paris though, I suspect it does not. It's such a big city it's likely the markets are similar to american ones, being targeted & priced at affluent upper middle class professionals. IDK though I have spent very little time in paris.
- timcobb 3y ago
  Where could I find this in France?
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Towns and small cities will just have a permanent structure for it, usually in or near the city center. It'll say "marché" or "les halles" on it, once you know what to look for they're easy to spot. The market is normally a couple times a week, early morning hours, in some places it will be over by 9, but in the summer vendors will be leaving even before that. Very small towns will just do it in the central square in front of the city hall or prominent church. Big cities will have one huge covered market somewhere that runs daily, and then smaller ones spread around different squares on other days. Again idk about paris. Lived in france for many years and still back regularly for family. But spent maybe a week total in paris, and even that was over a decade ago.
    - rtsil 3y ago
      There are many markets in Paris, they're open one day a week and most of them are over by 1 pm.
zer00eyz 3y ago
Apples are a poor choice to look at, because much like avocados they are all grown from cuttings and grafts. Apples are also an odd fruit because they can be kept for such a long time: https://www.foodrenegade.com/your-apples-year-old/ https://www.foodrenegade.com/your-apples-year-old/ this makes shipping them anywhere much easier than a tomato...
- timcobb 3y ago
  Why does being grown from cuttings and grafts make them a poor choice to look at? Wouldn't there be local varieties with different flavors that people would want to consume. You can cut and graft those just the same? It seems they optimized for the varieties that are easier to ship and preserve.
  - bsder 3y ago
    Why would you assume that France has a diversity of apples? (they may--but I wouldn't automatically expect it) Johnny Appleseed is American. The US has a huge diversity of apple trees based on locality. However, like so many things, said diversity is seasonal. There is a good reason for pressing apple cider--you need to do something with the enormous number of apples you couldn't eat directly. If you want apples out of season, you're only going to see the mass-manufactured ones.
    - nasmorn 3y ago
      Very true. In Austria you can still get a lot of heritage apples but mostly in the fall. Some varieties don’t keep well at all.
    - noSyncCloud 3y ago
      What does Jonny Appleseed have to do with anything? Apples are native to central Asia, not the Americas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?wprov=sfla1
      - 3y ago
currymj 3y ago
in the US, especially at "organic" grocery stores such as Whole Foods, you can typically get various weird apple cultivars -- although usually newly-developed rather than traditional. worth checking out if you like apples.
- timcobb 3y ago
  I've never noticed interesting apple cultivars in places like Whole Foods. I've noticed apples that had different names, but looked and tasted like Gala apples :).
- InSteady 3y ago
  Depending on your region, worth checking your local farmer's markets, food coops, and/or produce markets during fall-winter. There are multiple stalls in my town that have 15-20 apple varieties, only a few of which are "greatest hits" from grocery stores (pink something or other, jonagold). I have no doubt there is at least a sprinkling of heritage varieties in there.
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    > There are multiple stalls in my town that have 15-20 apple varieties I just checked the websites of about half a dozen orchards within a reasonable driving distance from me, and they all had a range of 30-40 varieties. Not all will be ripe at the same time; 15-20 all at once is going to be a huge orchard!
- RoyalHenOil 3y ago
  Newly-developed apple varieties dominate because they have been carefully selected for maximum production, storage and transport qualities, appearance, etc., etc. However, if you want to see some truly weird apples, heirlooms offer way more interest and variety if you can find them. (This probably involves making friends with people who have old trees, rather than finding a shop that sells them.) For example, I live on an old family farm with an heirloom apple variety (unknown name, if it was ever named at all, but dating back to at least the 1850s) that is spicy and bubbles/fizzes when you bite into it. It's quite cool, and I think it is something some people would want to buy, but it is unsuited to modern commercial production for a few reasons; for example, it fruits on new wood at the tips of the branches, which makes it less suited to modern tree pruning strategies (all modern apple varieties fruit on older wood, which makes them much easier to prune).
tschwimmer 3y ago
I can't speak to french apple grocery store selection, but I wonder if you should maybe go to a different grocery store in the US. In my area (SF Bay Area) at the most common grocery chain (Safeway) there are probably 8 or so varieties of apples on sale and they often rotate. I would say that they always have the common ones that you describe (Red Delicious, Gala, Fuji, Granny Smith), some less common ones that are there 80% of the time (Honeycrisp, Pink Lady) and then some more exotic ones that rotate (this time they had two I had never tried before - Pazaz [I had to check twice to make sure they didn't say Pazuzu] and Sugar Bee). The Sugar Bee's were incredible - firm, crispy, juicy and sweet with just a small hint of tartness. Beyond just the bulk loose apples, they had a bunch of weird apple "products" that were either packaged up or sold in a bag. The weirdest ones were apple "bites" which were just tiny little apples - no variety specified. In my experience, the average US grocery store has a vast selection of produce and I see the pattern with apples (standard base varieties, with some rotating specials) across most categories of produce - citrus, cucumbers, peppers, root veggies, etc. So in short, I dunno, I actually feel like there's a massive variety of agricultural products in the US. Certainly way more than in Switzerland, the country in which I've been to the grocery store the most outside of the US. Coop has like 3 kinds of apples, Migros was a bit better and had some interesting Kanzi apples which I had not seen in the states. YMMV ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
nicolas_t 3y ago
Wrong season, the best time is really september, october. Even in Paris, it should be relatively easy to find Belles de boskoop and reine de reinettes which are delicious. Otherwise, any farmer’s market in Britany and Normandie will have plenty of interesting apple varieties. The problem though is that those more unconventional cultivars tend to only be available seasonally.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
nebula8804 3y ago
I was just in Paris. One of my favorite French cafes got replaced with a Popeyes. :/ My fat american butt eventually relented a few days later and I bought a single breast from them. It wasn't even good Popeyes. Tasted like either they dont know how to make a good crispy piece of chicken or Europe gets sent the scraps.
- timcobb 3y ago
  I was pretty blown away by all the Popeyes! Ironically I saw a group of Popeyes white collar employees in Popeyes swag on my flight to France. Strange, I thought. Why are they flying to France? Lo and behold, “Louisiana fried chicken” was everywhere. Is it because Louisiana has French history?
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Its probably them requiring continuing growth and the US is tapped out. Five Guys also showed up, their pistachio shake was intriguing but a huge disappointment. I don't like what Paris has become, multiple French bistros have dropped in quality post-COVID(in my opinion). Also seems like Costa coffee has abandoned the city? Their coffee wasn't anything to go crazy over but it had good memories when I was a broke unemployed dev touring Europe via backpack.
- brigandish 3y ago
  Maybe you were away long enough to realise the taste isn't good.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Popeyes? Seriously? Popeyes is da bomb.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jfengel 3y ago

I can't speak to the grocery stores, but I did briefly work on an apple farm in Calvados. They had two dozen different kinds of apples, not one of which I'd ever heard of. (I did once get a very lame baguette at a Monoprix once. Blew my mind that the French tolerated it.) One possibility is that you were there out of season. We've gotten very good at preserving apples for all year, but they are harvested only for a month or so. It takes industrial climate control to make them taste good after about December.

BobaFloutist 3y ago
I understand that this probably refers to a French grocery store of some sort, but I can't get the image out of my head of you ordering a baguette off of the localized French version of https://www.monoprice.com/ https://www.monoprice.com/.
- albert180 3y ago
  Monoprix is a strange store that sells Food, Clothes, Household Items etc...
  - estebank 3y ago
    Kind of like Target.
  - conradfr 3y ago
    Isn't that most supermarkets?
    - albert180 3y ago
      Nope, at least in the other supermarkets it's more like 80-90% Food the rest is the other stuff, in Monoprix it's the other way around
kansface 3y ago
> Calvados As in, where the brandy comes from? I never knew it was eponymous. Booze is of course the original technology for preserving apples and fruit in general. My understanding is that was the original intended purpose for our older orchards included those planted by Johnny Appleseed.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  The calvados beverage is not only made in the Calvados departement. There are 3 different appelations: - regular calvados made from cider from different parts of Normandy - calvados Pays d'Auge which must be made from cider of that eponymous Pays d'Auge area (which is within the Calvados departement) - calvados du Domfrontais which is made from cider of the Domfront area in the Orne departement.
- dminor 3y ago
  Since he didn't graft, the fruit from the trees he planted would have mostly been unpleasant to eat. But still fit to ferment alcohol from, or feed to livestock.
- fuzztester 3y ago
  >Johnny Appleseed Reminds me of Luther Burbank: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank
kergonath 3y ago
> I did once get a very lame baguette at a Monoprix once. Blew my mind that the French tolerated it. We tend to buy bread in supermarkets only in case of dire emergency. Statistically, there probably was a much better bakery around the corner from that Monoprix. > It takes industrial climate control to make them taste good after about December. I remember my grand mother keeping apples in her cellar (cold but not freezing, dry, close to constant temperature year round). The apple she put there were fantastic long into winter. They would not look great, slightly shrunk and with wrinkles, but the taste was excellent. Industrial climate control is to keep them look good, not to keep them taste good.

giraffe_lady 3y ago

In most of france produce markets are where you'd go for this, but you're rigidly tied to the seasonal production. So you can get all kinds of apples! In september and october. And no apples at any other time. I'm not sure this applies in paris though, I suspect it does not. It's such a big city it's likely the markets are similar to american ones, being targeted & priced at affluent upper middle class professionals. IDK though I have spent very little time in paris.

timcobb 3y ago
Where could I find this in France?
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Towns and small cities will just have a permanent structure for it, usually in or near the city center. It'll say "marché" or "les halles" on it, once you know what to look for they're easy to spot. The market is normally a couple times a week, early morning hours, in some places it will be over by 9, but in the summer vendors will be leaving even before that. Very small towns will just do it in the central square in front of the city hall or prominent church. Big cities will have one huge covered market somewhere that runs daily, and then smaller ones spread around different squares on other days. Again idk about paris. Lived in france for many years and still back regularly for family. But spent maybe a week total in paris, and even that was over a decade ago.
  - rtsil 3y ago
    There are many markets in Paris, they're open one day a week and most of them are over by 1 pm.

zer00eyz 3y ago

Apples are a poor choice to look at, because much like avocados they are all grown from cuttings and grafts. Apples are also an odd fruit because they can be kept for such a long time: https://www.foodrenegade.com/your-apples-year-old/ https://www.foodrenegade.com/your-apples-year-old/ this makes shipping them anywhere much easier than a tomato...

timcobb 3y ago
Why does being grown from cuttings and grafts make them a poor choice to look at? Wouldn't there be local varieties with different flavors that people would want to consume. You can cut and graft those just the same? It seems they optimized for the varieties that are easier to ship and preserve.
- bsder 3y ago
  Why would you assume that France has a diversity of apples? (they may--but I wouldn't automatically expect it) Johnny Appleseed is American. The US has a huge diversity of apple trees based on locality. However, like so many things, said diversity is seasonal. There is a good reason for pressing apple cider--you need to do something with the enormous number of apples you couldn't eat directly. If you want apples out of season, you're only going to see the mass-manufactured ones.
  - nasmorn 3y ago
    Very true. In Austria you can still get a lot of heritage apples but mostly in the fall. Some varieties don’t keep well at all.
  - noSyncCloud 3y ago
    What does Jonny Appleseed have to do with anything? Apples are native to central Asia, not the Americas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?wprov=sfla1
    - 3y ago

currymj 3y ago

in the US, especially at "organic" grocery stores such as Whole Foods, you can typically get various weird apple cultivars -- although usually newly-developed rather than traditional. worth checking out if you like apples.

timcobb 3y ago
I've never noticed interesting apple cultivars in places like Whole Foods. I've noticed apples that had different names, but looked and tasted like Gala apples :).
InSteady 3y ago
Depending on your region, worth checking your local farmer's markets, food coops, and/or produce markets during fall-winter. There are multiple stalls in my town that have 15-20 apple varieties, only a few of which are "greatest hits" from grocery stores (pink something or other, jonagold). I have no doubt there is at least a sprinkling of heritage varieties in there.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  > There are multiple stalls in my town that have 15-20 apple varieties I just checked the websites of about half a dozen orchards within a reasonable driving distance from me, and they all had a range of 30-40 varieties. Not all will be ripe at the same time; 15-20 all at once is going to be a huge orchard!
RoyalHenOil 3y ago
Newly-developed apple varieties dominate because they have been carefully selected for maximum production, storage and transport qualities, appearance, etc., etc. However, if you want to see some truly weird apples, heirlooms offer way more interest and variety if you can find them. (This probably involves making friends with people who have old trees, rather than finding a shop that sells them.) For example, I live on an old family farm with an heirloom apple variety (unknown name, if it was ever named at all, but dating back to at least the 1850s) that is spicy and bubbles/fizzes when you bite into it. It's quite cool, and I think it is something some people would want to buy, but it is unsuited to modern commercial production for a few reasons; for example, it fruits on new wood at the tips of the branches, which makes it less suited to modern tree pruning strategies (all modern apple varieties fruit on older wood, which makes them much easier to prune).

tschwimmer 3y ago

I can't speak to french apple grocery store selection, but I wonder if you should maybe go to a different grocery store in the US. In my area (SF Bay Area) at the most common grocery chain (Safeway) there are probably 8 or so varieties of apples on sale and they often rotate. I would say that they always have the common ones that you describe (Red Delicious, Gala, Fuji, Granny Smith), some less common ones that are there 80% of the time (Honeycrisp, Pink Lady) and then some more exotic ones that rotate (this time they had two I had never tried before - Pazaz [I had to check twice to make sure they didn't say Pazuzu] and Sugar Bee). The Sugar Bee's were incredible - firm, crispy, juicy and sweet with just a small hint of tartness. Beyond just the bulk loose apples, they had a bunch of weird apple "products" that were either packaged up or sold in a bag. The weirdest ones were apple "bites" which were just tiny little apples - no variety specified. In my experience, the average US grocery store has a vast selection of produce and I see the pattern with apples (standard base varieties, with some rotating specials) across most categories of produce - citrus, cucumbers, peppers, root veggies, etc. So in short, I dunno, I actually feel like there's a massive variety of agricultural products in the US. Certainly way more than in Switzerland, the country in which I've been to the grocery store the most outside of the US. Coop has like 3 kinds of apples, Migros was a bit better and had some interesting Kanzi apples which I had not seen in the states. YMMV ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

nicolas_t 3y ago

Wrong season, the best time is really september, october. Even in Paris, it should be relatively easy to find Belles de boskoop and reine de reinettes which are delicious. Otherwise, any farmer’s market in Britany and Normandie will have plenty of interesting apple varieties. The problem though is that those more unconventional cultivars tend to only be available seasonally.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

nebula8804 3y ago

I was just in Paris. One of my favorite French cafes got replaced with a Popeyes. :/ My fat american butt eventually relented a few days later and I bought a single breast from them. It wasn't even good Popeyes. Tasted like either they dont know how to make a good crispy piece of chicken or Europe gets sent the scraps.

timcobb 3y ago
I was pretty blown away by all the Popeyes! Ironically I saw a group of Popeyes white collar employees in Popeyes swag on my flight to France. Strange, I thought. Why are they flying to France? Lo and behold, “Louisiana fried chicken” was everywhere. Is it because Louisiana has French history?
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Its probably them requiring continuing growth and the US is tapped out. Five Guys also showed up, their pistachio shake was intriguing but a huge disappointment. I don't like what Paris has become, multiple French bistros have dropped in quality post-COVID(in my opinion). Also seems like Costa coffee has abandoned the city? Their coffee wasn't anything to go crazy over but it had good memories when I was a broke unemployed dev touring Europe via backpack.
brigandish 3y ago
Maybe you were away long enough to realise the taste isn't good.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Popeyes? Seriously? Popeyes is da bomb.