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I just recently went through the process at age 49 to get my pilot's license. Purely for fun, however the vast majority of the students that I trained with wer

I just recently went through the process at age 49 to get my pilot's license. Purely for fun, however the vast majority of the students that I trained with were just like many of the hopefuls in this article - pursuing a high paying career. I could write a book about flight school management dynamics. The personalities, the hopefuls, the dreamers, the wild power dynamics between a flight school and a student who desperately wants to get to the airlines (the promise land). The instructors, who all were just recently students now grinding out hours to qualify for an airline job. Safety. Studying and learning. Relationships. Accidents. The financial aspects are incredibly risky for many. The statistics: only 22% of students who begin training for the first step - a private pilot license - end up finishing. For those wanting to make a career or progress further, there's your instrument rating (to fly in bad weather), your commercial license (to fly for money), your flight instructor license (so you can teach - which essentially is your only path to gaining experience/hours without having to pay for it out of pocket), and then your Air Transport license, which ... airlines. That requires 1500 hours of experience. It truly was one of the more fascinating adventures I've done.

hollerith 3y ago
>teach - which essentially is your only path to gaining experience/hours without having to pay for it out of pocket Flying for a military organization is another path, is it not? Or do the airlines no longer want former military pilots? I know they used to hire a lot of them.
- blantonl 3y ago
  Yes, this is an avenue into the career of being an airline pilot. However being a military pilot doesn't directly translate to being what is essentially a bus driver, and there is extensive retraining that has to occur. But yes, the airlines recruit and bring in a ton of military pilots.
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    A few months ago a former Navy guy mentioned to me that you can tell if your pilot is Navy or Air Force by the landing. Air Force pilots will come in nice and smooth, but Navy pilots, having been trained to land on carriers, will hit hard. I don’t know if there is truth to that, but if so, I’ve definitely had more than a few Navy pilots.
    - jonah 3y ago
      My cousin - RIP - who was former Air Force, flew for FedEx. He said he preferred flying freight to passengers because you didn't have to worry about being has gradual on the climb out or smooth on the approach and landing and he didn't have to deal with annoying passengers. ;)
      - bombcar 3y ago
        Probably the 'optimal' path to a pilot's job would be to fly bulk for the military (boring things like the C130), not the fighters, and transition to a freight airline. The UPS planes out of Ontario, CA would climb a hell of a lot faster than the passenger jets out of LAX.
    - blantonl 3y ago
      It's kind of a fun old wives tale that is humorous, but not really a thing in practice. Some of the biggest challenges military pilots face transitioning to the airlines are that the vast majority of them worked far more independently in their roles in the military. So cockpit resource management for a lot of them is a huge challenge. Airline pilots also are responsible for a lot more "working with the masses" type work.
    - psunavy03 3y ago
      No. Any Navy pilot is skilled enough to flare. The descent rate necessary to land on a carrier is 600-800 feet per minute, which would literally break the landing gear on any airliner, or at least cause a hard landing inspection to have to be done to the airframe looking for potential damage. Airliners and civilian aircraft "hit hard" for two reasons usually. Either the pilot mildly goofed the flare and "dropped it in" slightly at the end, or else the runway is slick and/or short. In which case, they are aiming to put the aircraft down early and somewhat firmly so they can get on the thrust reversers and/or brakes quickly. A nice greaser of a landing tends to allow the aircraft to float awhile in ground effect, and sometimes the runway is short or slick enough that style points don't count.
maroonblazer 3y ago
I'm getting close to retirement and have been considering getting a pilot's license. My only reservation is the expense of fuel/rental when I get bored of flying around my city/area. Curious to hear more about your journey and how you reckon with the expense of getting into the air for fun.
- blantonl 3y ago
  your reckoning with the expense of getting into the air for fun is this: Go take about $2000 in various denominations and flush it down the toilet. Did that feel good? /s If that didn't hurt too bad, you're past the first hurdle.
  - Solvency 3y ago
    What about all the relatively poor Alaskans who fly small planes around (no roads, tracking animals, checking traps)? What are the dynamics such that they can afford that lifestyle?
    - blantonl 3y ago
      there are exceptions to every rule. Alaska and aviation is literally the wild west. The dynamics are they essentially have to make it work.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        Like the similar situation in Australia, there's a strong culture of "you'll probably only kill yourself" that allows a lot of things to be overlooked.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      Cutting corners. https://www.propublica.org/article/how-we-tallied-alaska-aviation-deaths https://www.propublica.org/article/how-we-tallied-alaska-avi... > A KUCB and ProPublica analysis has found that in recent years, Alaska has accounted for a growing share of the country’s fatalities from crashes involving small commercial aircraft. Since 2016, 42% of the country’s deaths in these crashes occurred in Alaska, up from 26% in the early 2000s.
jjav 3y ago
> That requires 1500 hours of experience. That seems awfully low, can you get to be a commercial airline pilot with those hours? In the boat world, getting the entry level commercial license (OUPV) would take a minimum of 1440 hours on the water (it's measured in days, not hours, so would usually be more). And all you can do with that is transport 6 people or less. So it sounds wild that with essentially the same number of practice hours you could be piloting an airliner with lots of people!

hollerith 3y ago

>teach - which essentially is your only path to gaining experience/hours without having to pay for it out of pocket Flying for a military organization is another path, is it not? Or do the airlines no longer want former military pilots? I know they used to hire a lot of them.

blantonl 3y ago
Yes, this is an avenue into the career of being an airline pilot. However being a military pilot doesn't directly translate to being what is essentially a bus driver, and there is extensive retraining that has to occur. But yes, the airlines recruit and bring in a ton of military pilots.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  A few months ago a former Navy guy mentioned to me that you can tell if your pilot is Navy or Air Force by the landing. Air Force pilots will come in nice and smooth, but Navy pilots, having been trained to land on carriers, will hit hard. I don’t know if there is truth to that, but if so, I’ve definitely had more than a few Navy pilots.
  - jonah 3y ago
    My cousin - RIP - who was former Air Force, flew for FedEx. He said he preferred flying freight to passengers because you didn't have to worry about being has gradual on the climb out or smooth on the approach and landing and he didn't have to deal with annoying passengers. ;)
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Probably the 'optimal' path to a pilot's job would be to fly bulk for the military (boring things like the C130), not the fighters, and transition to a freight airline. The UPS planes out of Ontario, CA would climb a hell of a lot faster than the passenger jets out of LAX.
  - blantonl 3y ago
    It's kind of a fun old wives tale that is humorous, but not really a thing in practice. Some of the biggest challenges military pilots face transitioning to the airlines are that the vast majority of them worked far more independently in their roles in the military. So cockpit resource management for a lot of them is a huge challenge. Airline pilots also are responsible for a lot more "working with the masses" type work.
  - psunavy03 3y ago
    No. Any Navy pilot is skilled enough to flare. The descent rate necessary to land on a carrier is 600-800 feet per minute, which would literally break the landing gear on any airliner, or at least cause a hard landing inspection to have to be done to the airframe looking for potential damage. Airliners and civilian aircraft "hit hard" for two reasons usually. Either the pilot mildly goofed the flare and "dropped it in" slightly at the end, or else the runway is slick and/or short. In which case, they are aiming to put the aircraft down early and somewhat firmly so they can get on the thrust reversers and/or brakes quickly. A nice greaser of a landing tends to allow the aircraft to float awhile in ground effect, and sometimes the runway is short or slick enough that style points don't count.

maroonblazer 3y ago

I'm getting close to retirement and have been considering getting a pilot's license. My only reservation is the expense of fuel/rental when I get bored of flying around my city/area. Curious to hear more about your journey and how you reckon with the expense of getting into the air for fun.

blantonl 3y ago
your reckoning with the expense of getting into the air for fun is this: Go take about $2000 in various denominations and flush it down the toilet. Did that feel good? /s If that didn't hurt too bad, you're past the first hurdle.
- Solvency 3y ago
  What about all the relatively poor Alaskans who fly small planes around (no roads, tracking animals, checking traps)? What are the dynamics such that they can afford that lifestyle?
  - blantonl 3y ago
    there are exceptions to every rule. Alaska and aviation is literally the wild west. The dynamics are they essentially have to make it work.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Like the similar situation in Australia, there's a strong culture of "you'll probably only kill yourself" that allows a lot of things to be overlooked.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Cutting corners. https://www.propublica.org/article/how-we-tallied-alaska-aviation-deaths https://www.propublica.org/article/how-we-tallied-alaska-avi... > A KUCB and ProPublica analysis has found that in recent years, Alaska has accounted for a growing share of the country’s fatalities from crashes involving small commercial aircraft. Since 2016, 42% of the country’s deaths in these crashes occurred in Alaska, up from 26% in the early 2000s.

jjav 3y ago

> That requires 1500 hours of experience. That seems awfully low, can you get to be a commercial airline pilot with those hours? In the boat world, getting the entry level commercial license (OUPV) would take a minimum of 1440 hours on the water (it's measured in days, not hours, so would usually be more). And all you can do with that is transport 6 people or less. So it sounds wild that with essentially the same number of practice hours you could be piloting an airliner with lots of people!