3 ms·

Cloud storage is better than local storage for the average person. * The average person does not do backups. No, he will not do backups. No! He seriously won't

Cloud storage is better than local storage for the average person. * The average person does not do backups. No, he will not do backups. No! He seriously won't. Cloud storage solves this very real, very basic problem. * The average person does not understand file systems. No, he will not understand file systems. No! He seriously won't. Cloud storage solves this problem by Abstraction(tm). * The average person does not use much disk space; the biggest chunk is probably the photos on his phone. Combined with the previous, a 1TB HDD/SSD in a NAS at home is "WTF" and "WTF" for him. Note, we aren't average people.

lnxg33k1 3y ago
1) we have seen recently that data can disappear also from cloud storage, so I don’t like talking about average person, because I am an average person in medical terms, but I still take the steps necessary to stay healthy, like doing periodic checkups, so the average person in tech needs to educate themselves in doing their backup or not complaining, I am not sure we have to build a society based on the needs of the average person who doesn’t bother reading anything or anything 2) Filesystems et cetera, are not rocket science, Windows gives you even a way to automatically create mirrored disks, it's just a matter to read a tutorial I don't feel I have any obligation towards average people, it's their works and it's their duty to understand basic tech, it's not rocket science. Like all other people try to inform themselves about pipes in a bathroom, kitchens, medicals, etc. If they don't, if Google or Microsoft change their ToS (That I guess the average person hasn't bothered reading) or if Google has a data loss, then should not complai, if Microsoft changes their policies, they shouldn't complain, being an average person is not a justification to live leeching society, ignorance has never been a justification
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  I am sad to inform you that we are surrounded by average people and they dictate where we all go. You asked "how many cloud services will have to give people unpleasant experiences for those same people to stop going all in on cloud services", and the answer to that is "Ain't nobody got time to 'puter.". No, I'm not being facetious; I'm serious. The average person wants to use computers to enrich their lives, not manage computers and be sysadmins. Cloud storage is just one natural evolution path of that demand. Hell, I'm not an average person and I'm also buying into cloud storage now. I'm in my mid 30s now and life isn't stopping; I want to become a greybeard, not a neckbeard.
  - lnxg33k1 3y ago
    My point was not to limit the actions of average people, my point is to inform that cloud services have locked out people due to algorithms errors, have had data loss, have changed the ToS, etc. And average people should take their decisions being informed data cloud storage is volatile and can / has disappeared
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      Those horror stories by far do not apply to most people. Like all horror stories, the negative incidents leave far stronger impressions than the far more numerous positive or mundane experiences nobody talks about. Also, I'm going to reply to this claim here since it was edited in after I already replied: >Filesystems et cetera, are not rocket science, File systems are absolutely rocket science. It's been well over 30 years since that paradigm was introduced to try and make how computers handle data more relatable to most people and it has not worked. It is the year 2024 and most people still put everything on their desktop. Kids in particular[1] do not grasp file systems at all. File systems are an abject failure of human interface design and engineering. [1]: https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/09/27/2032200/students-dont-know-what-files-and-folders-are-professors-say https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/09/27/2032200/students-do...
      - toyg 3y ago
        Er, filesystems as a paradigm are more like 50+ years old, if not even older. Tbh, it's an office-based metaphor created by and for office admins. The general public just doesn't relate. Maybe if they'd called directories "wardrobes" or "drawers"...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
lotsofpulp 3y ago
>The average person does not do backups. No, he will not do backups. No! He seriously won't. Cloud storage solves this very real, very basic problem. It should be technically feasible to make setting up backups to your own NAS at home as easy as backups to iCloud. So if people are backing up to iCloud, I do not see why they would not backup to their own NAS. Same for why they do not need to understand a file system just because they have a NAS. > Combined with the previous, a 1TB HDD/SSD in a NAS at home is "WTF" and "WTF" for him. I don’t know what WTF means here. 1TB is cheap these days, so not sure what the issue is being pointed out in your 3rd bullet point.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >It should be technically feasible to make setting up backups to your own NAS at home A proper backup is 3 copies, 2 on different media, 1 offsite. Absolutely no average person is going to bother with any of that. Three copies? Ridiculous, he will say. 2 different media? I ain't made of money, he will say; also WTF is a "media"? CNN can backup my stuff? 1 offsite? I'm not going to juggle stuff in and out of my bank's safe deposit box, he will say. Cloud storage solves all of those concerns for less than pennies to a byte. >Same for why they do not need to understand a file system just because they have a NAS. Managing a computer of any kind requires understanding them, and that includes understanding file systems. Most people do not understand file systems, please stop telling them to because it's never going to happen. >I don’t know what WTF means here. "What the fuck" as in "WTF is '1TB'?", "WTF do I do with 1TB?", and "WTF is a 'NAS'?". Remember, we are talking about average people. Not computer wizards and sysadmins like most of us here.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    > A proper backup is 3 copies, 2 on different media, 1 offsite. Why is this relevant to people having the bandwidth to do backups at their own site? And getting cutoff by a big tech company with no recourse is not a “proper” backup either. > Most people do not understand file systems, please stop telling them to because it's never going to happen. I never did. I setup a Synology NAS 8 years ago and I have not had to look at it since. Surely, the UI software is even easier to use these days. > What the fuck" as in "WTF is '1TB'?", "WTF do I do with 1TB?", and "WTF is a 'NAS'?". Remember, we are talking about average people. Not computer wizards and sysadmins like most of us here. We have different expectations of people. At one point, average people did not have electrical, plumbing, washers, dryers, refrigerators, laptops, smartphones, routers and access points, etc. I think they would be able to handle one more appliance where plugging it into network, scanning a QR code to setup, and pull out and push in HDD in the event a HDD or NAS break.

lnxg33k1 3y ago

1) we have seen recently that data can disappear also from cloud storage, so I don’t like talking about average person, because I am an average person in medical terms, but I still take the steps necessary to stay healthy, like doing periodic checkups, so the average person in tech needs to educate themselves in doing their backup or not complaining, I am not sure we have to build a society based on the needs of the average person who doesn’t bother reading anything or anything 2) Filesystems et cetera, are not rocket science, Windows gives you even a way to automatically create mirrored disks, it's just a matter to read a tutorial I don't feel I have any obligation towards average people, it's their works and it's their duty to understand basic tech, it's not rocket science. Like all other people try to inform themselves about pipes in a bathroom, kitchens, medicals, etc. If they don't, if Google or Microsoft change their ToS (That I guess the average person hasn't bothered reading) or if Google has a data loss, then should not complai, if Microsoft changes their policies, they shouldn't complain, being an average person is not a justification to live leeching society, ignorance has never been a justification

Dalewyn 3y ago
I am sad to inform you that we are surrounded by average people and they dictate where we all go. You asked "how many cloud services will have to give people unpleasant experiences for those same people to stop going all in on cloud services", and the answer to that is "Ain't nobody got time to 'puter.". No, I'm not being facetious; I'm serious. The average person wants to use computers to enrich their lives, not manage computers and be sysadmins. Cloud storage is just one natural evolution path of that demand. Hell, I'm not an average person and I'm also buying into cloud storage now. I'm in my mid 30s now and life isn't stopping; I want to become a greybeard, not a neckbeard.
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  My point was not to limit the actions of average people, my point is to inform that cloud services have locked out people due to algorithms errors, have had data loss, have changed the ToS, etc. And average people should take their decisions being informed data cloud storage is volatile and can / has disappeared
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Those horror stories by far do not apply to most people. Like all horror stories, the negative incidents leave far stronger impressions than the far more numerous positive or mundane experiences nobody talks about. Also, I'm going to reply to this claim here since it was edited in after I already replied: >Filesystems et cetera, are not rocket science, File systems are absolutely rocket science. It's been well over 30 years since that paradigm was introduced to try and make how computers handle data more relatable to most people and it has not worked. It is the year 2024 and most people still put everything on their desktop. Kids in particular[1] do not grasp file systems at all. File systems are an abject failure of human interface design and engineering. [1]: https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/09/27/2032200/students-dont-know-what-files-and-folders-are-professors-say https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/09/27/2032200/students-do...
    - toyg 3y ago
      Er, filesystems as a paradigm are more like 50+ years old, if not even older. Tbh, it's an office-based metaphor created by and for office admins. The general public just doesn't relate. Maybe if they'd called directories "wardrobes" or "drawers"...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

lotsofpulp 3y ago

>The average person does not do backups. No, he will not do backups. No! He seriously won't. Cloud storage solves this very real, very basic problem. It should be technically feasible to make setting up backups to your own NAS at home as easy as backups to iCloud. So if people are backing up to iCloud, I do not see why they would not backup to their own NAS. Same for why they do not need to understand a file system just because they have a NAS. > Combined with the previous, a 1TB HDD/SSD in a NAS at home is "WTF" and "WTF" for him. I don’t know what WTF means here. 1TB is cheap these days, so not sure what the issue is being pointed out in your 3rd bullet point.

Dalewyn 3y ago
>It should be technically feasible to make setting up backups to your own NAS at home A proper backup is 3 copies, 2 on different media, 1 offsite. Absolutely no average person is going to bother with any of that. Three copies? Ridiculous, he will say. 2 different media? I ain't made of money, he will say; also WTF is a "media"? CNN can backup my stuff? 1 offsite? I'm not going to juggle stuff in and out of my bank's safe deposit box, he will say. Cloud storage solves all of those concerns for less than pennies to a byte. >Same for why they do not need to understand a file system just because they have a NAS. Managing a computer of any kind requires understanding them, and that includes understanding file systems. Most people do not understand file systems, please stop telling them to because it's never going to happen. >I don’t know what WTF means here. "What the fuck" as in "WTF is '1TB'?", "WTF do I do with 1TB?", and "WTF is a 'NAS'?". Remember, we are talking about average people. Not computer wizards and sysadmins like most of us here.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > A proper backup is 3 copies, 2 on different media, 1 offsite. Why is this relevant to people having the bandwidth to do backups at their own site? And getting cutoff by a big tech company with no recourse is not a “proper” backup either. > Most people do not understand file systems, please stop telling them to because it's never going to happen. I never did. I setup a Synology NAS 8 years ago and I have not had to look at it since. Surely, the UI software is even easier to use these days. > What the fuck" as in "WTF is '1TB'?", "WTF do I do with 1TB?", and "WTF is a 'NAS'?". Remember, we are talking about average people. Not computer wizards and sysadmins like most of us here. We have different expectations of people. At one point, average people did not have electrical, plumbing, washers, dryers, refrigerators, laptops, smartphones, routers and access points, etc. I think they would be able to handle one more appliance where plugging it into network, scanning a QR code to setup, and pull out and push in HDD in the event a HDD or NAS break.