3 ms·

I'm saying that ASD only really matters for when support is needed. Diagnosis can open doors to government provided support. I think self-diagnosis is fine fo

I'm saying that ASD only really matters for when support is needed. Diagnosis can open doors to government provided support. I think self-diagnosis is fine for people who don't require support. Though I've noticed that some people will both not acknowledge it, but at the same time unconsciously hold prejudices in relation to this 'difference' that they don't acknowledge, often in condescending ways.

skissane 3y ago
Which I think was part of what my psychologist and psychiatrist's point was – in spite of my various issues, I somehow manage to have a job that pays well, a wife and two kids, cars, property, investments... I wouldn't be eligible for any government-provided support (nor should I be), no matter what pieces of paper I might purchase. Someone else who doesn't have those things, such a piece of paper can have some real practical benefits for them (irrespective of whether the piece of paper is an "accurate" or "correct" diagnosis) > I think self-diagnosis is fine for people who don't require support. This is what I don't agree with. I associate "self-diagnosis" with over-reification of ASD, which is a pet peeve of mine – emphasising categorical over dimensional understandings, ignorance of the doubts over ASD's validity as a scientific theory, ignorance of the evidence that it is (partially) socially constructed. And that's hardly a point unique to ASD, it applies to all psychiatric diagnoses – yet, many people seem to "identify with" ASD as their "true self" to a degree that rarely seen with other disorders – how many people identity with BPD or schizoaffective disorder or dysthymia in that way? And I don't like that identification. Whatever diagnoses I may or may not have, they are not me – and I don't want my children growing up identifying with their diagnoses either.
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  > Whatever diagnoses I may or may not have, they are not me – and I don't want my children growing up identifying with their diagnoses either It's not a matter of identity, but explanatory power. To reiterate, the self-acknowledgement/'diagnosis' as autistic (not ASD) is 'useful from a self-compassion and tolerance standpoint'. So instead of, why do I find X difficult when everyone else finds it easy (or even laughs/condescends/points it out), I can say, I'm autistic, that's not easy for me. I agree that autism is a fuzzy socially-defined phenomenon. The distinction, once again, is only as valuable as how much it comes into conflict with society. So, by example, if a child is being made fun of for not understanding the tacit social rules of the playground, or a teenager of the art of seduction, or an adult of polite conversation, this self-awareness could be useful as a way of understanding one's own difficulties, and also as a way of surmounting or managing them. It can also be useful for others to be more aware or tolerant. I also agree, it's not on the person themselves, they are not broken in some way.
  - Fnoord 3y ago
    Broken or not depends on context and who you ask. In the end we are all HR and as many of us must function in society. Add to that that there's an abundance of jobs due to babyboomers quitting the workforce (though less in USA according to Peter Zeihan) and there is a large benefit having people in general function in society. My daughter is 5 y.o. and has a best friend on school. Our daughter is undiagnosed for now, we both are. I get the feeling the mother of her best friend isn't happy with them being best friends. Why? Fear of being excluded, I suspect. Right now I'm unemployed since December and the lack of employed role model for my kids is thus far more harmful than lack of income (though latter will become relevant again within time).
    - h0l0cube 3y ago
      When I was 18, I attended an elective subject at college about "Professional communication". It was the first time I learnt that body language is even a thing. There's definitely courses to help with communication skills, particularly in a professional context, though I imagine the quality of said courses would vary dramatically. Not to mention there's a whole cottage industry of unqualified 'life coaches', 'style coaches', and so on, though their value is probably even more variable. I'm not sure if they could help employability, but such services are available to everyone.
      - Fnoord 3y ago
        I got help. Not when I was 18 when I needed it (could not finish my education), or at the very least nothing of substance but with a severe lack of empathy. As an adult, as part of my autism diagnosis was therapy understanding autism. That was fascinating, it helped me a lot. I also followed an adult education aimed at people with autism. It didn't fully align with my interests so I had to find something related to that within the job market. I ended up with a job within that field, with 3 one year contracts. Because I already was deemed 100% unemployed the org got benefits for contracting me. Unfortunately, my neighbors complained about our kids noise and even accused me of being a child predator/rapist. The former (regarding the noise) being truth though something we do try to minimize and the latter BS but also my worst nightmare before becoming a parent. I ended up with a burnout (and on the brink of a psychosis) and slowly got back to working full-time. I reported myself 75% better, but unfortunately my contract didn't get renewed (that sword of Damocles was apparent back when I got the burnout, so it was of little surprise). The day I got unemployed I had to report to the government employment agency, and the above was basically not believed. I feel misunderstood. I already mentioned the story truthful though omitting some personal details, so I'd like to add the art of cooking a dinner as well as programming are some of the most awesome things one can perform, in my opinion. But because of the endless possibilities and the many small steps I can only perform very simple, basic, archaic instruction sets.

skissane 3y ago

Which I think was part of what my psychologist and psychiatrist's point was – in spite of my various issues, I somehow manage to have a job that pays well, a wife and two kids, cars, property, investments... I wouldn't be eligible for any government-provided support (nor should I be), no matter what pieces of paper I might purchase. Someone else who doesn't have those things, such a piece of paper can have some real practical benefits for them (irrespective of whether the piece of paper is an "accurate" or "correct" diagnosis) > I think self-diagnosis is fine for people who don't require support. This is what I don't agree with. I associate "self-diagnosis" with over-reification of ASD, which is a pet peeve of mine – emphasising categorical over dimensional understandings, ignorance of the doubts over ASD's validity as a scientific theory, ignorance of the evidence that it is (partially) socially constructed. And that's hardly a point unique to ASD, it applies to all psychiatric diagnoses – yet, many people seem to "identify with" ASD as their "true self" to a degree that rarely seen with other disorders – how many people identity with BPD or schizoaffective disorder or dysthymia in that way? And I don't like that identification. Whatever diagnoses I may or may not have, they are not me – and I don't want my children growing up identifying with their diagnoses either.

h0l0cube 3y ago
> Whatever diagnoses I may or may not have, they are not me – and I don't want my children growing up identifying with their diagnoses either It's not a matter of identity, but explanatory power. To reiterate, the self-acknowledgement/'diagnosis' as autistic (not ASD) is 'useful from a self-compassion and tolerance standpoint'. So instead of, why do I find X difficult when everyone else finds it easy (or even laughs/condescends/points it out), I can say, I'm autistic, that's not easy for me. I agree that autism is a fuzzy socially-defined phenomenon. The distinction, once again, is only as valuable as how much it comes into conflict with society. So, by example, if a child is being made fun of for not understanding the tacit social rules of the playground, or a teenager of the art of seduction, or an adult of polite conversation, this self-awareness could be useful as a way of understanding one's own difficulties, and also as a way of surmounting or managing them. It can also be useful for others to be more aware or tolerant. I also agree, it's not on the person themselves, they are not broken in some way.
- Fnoord 3y ago
  Broken or not depends on context and who you ask. In the end we are all HR and as many of us must function in society. Add to that that there's an abundance of jobs due to babyboomers quitting the workforce (though less in USA according to Peter Zeihan) and there is a large benefit having people in general function in society. My daughter is 5 y.o. and has a best friend on school. Our daughter is undiagnosed for now, we both are. I get the feeling the mother of her best friend isn't happy with them being best friends. Why? Fear of being excluded, I suspect. Right now I'm unemployed since December and the lack of employed role model for my kids is thus far more harmful than lack of income (though latter will become relevant again within time).
  - h0l0cube 3y ago
    When I was 18, I attended an elective subject at college about "Professional communication". It was the first time I learnt that body language is even a thing. There's definitely courses to help with communication skills, particularly in a professional context, though I imagine the quality of said courses would vary dramatically. Not to mention there's a whole cottage industry of unqualified 'life coaches', 'style coaches', and so on, though their value is probably even more variable. I'm not sure if they could help employability, but such services are available to everyone.
    - Fnoord 3y ago
      I got help. Not when I was 18 when I needed it (could not finish my education), or at the very least nothing of substance but with a severe lack of empathy. As an adult, as part of my autism diagnosis was therapy understanding autism. That was fascinating, it helped me a lot. I also followed an adult education aimed at people with autism. It didn't fully align with my interests so I had to find something related to that within the job market. I ended up with a job within that field, with 3 one year contracts. Because I already was deemed 100% unemployed the org got benefits for contracting me. Unfortunately, my neighbors complained about our kids noise and even accused me of being a child predator/rapist. The former (regarding the noise) being truth though something we do try to minimize and the latter BS but also my worst nightmare before becoming a parent. I ended up with a burnout (and on the brink of a psychosis) and slowly got back to working full-time. I reported myself 75% better, but unfortunately my contract didn't get renewed (that sword of Damocles was apparent back when I got the burnout, so it was of little surprise). The day I got unemployed I had to report to the government employment agency, and the above was basically not believed. I feel misunderstood. I already mentioned the story truthful though omitting some personal details, so I'd like to add the art of cooking a dinner as well as programming are some of the most awesome things one can perform, in my opinion. But because of the endless possibilities and the many small steps I can only perform very simple, basic, archaic instruction sets.