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> Do you want every application to have root access? No application should have root access. If Apple is giving their competitive apps root-equivalent permiss

> Do you want every application to have root access? No application should have root access. If Apple is giving their competitive apps root-equivalent permissions then I would say that's an even larger scandal. > How has Apple having “private entitlements” hurt their competitors [...] By creating yet another gate where they are exempt from the rules. > The two exceptions I can think of With all due respect, if there are exceptions you can think of then I think the situation is flawed. There's also the browser engine dispute, iMessage's neverending hermitage, and Apple's gradual depreciation of cross-platform libraries. We can argue that there's some merit to all of those behaviors, but together they represent a coordinated anticompetitive strategy. If Apple can't isolate their hardware ambitions from their software ones, I feel like this will end with a judge threatening to break Apple into two companies a-la United States v. Microsoft Corp.

scarface_74 3y ago
> By creating yet another gate where they are exempt from the rules. You still haven’t given one example of where Apple has a competing service that puts them at an advantage over competitors based on private entitlements? > iMessage's neverending hermitage What can iMessage do that a competing messaging app can’t do? > Apple's gradual depreciation of cross-platform libraries How is not supporting a cross platform library given Apple a competitive advantage? Game developers use cross platform engines that abstract the difference and there have been cross platform web based cross platform SDKs forever like React Native. > If Apple can't isolate their hardware ambitions from their software ones, I feel like this will end with a judge threatening to break Apple into two companies a-la United States v. Microsoft Corp. Back then Microsoft was the most valuable and today…MS is the most valuable company. How did that work out? Apple has literally been an integrated software/hardware company for almost 50 years
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > You still haven’t given one example of where Apple has a competing service that puts them at an advantage over competitors based on private entitlements? Apple Maps, Apple Health, Apple Music (as you mentioned) the App Store, Siri, Safari and Password Manager all come to mind. > What can iMessage do that a competing messaging app can’t do? Functionally replace SMS. Apple knows they should have replaced SMS using a consortium of some sort, but they took advantage of the situation and bundled instead. Now SMS is a derilect mess, the alternatives are just as greedy as iMessage and nobody wants to work together. > How is not supporting a cross platform library given Apple a competitive advantage? It's part of a continued, overt and obvious strategy to stop cross-platform developers from porting their code to Mac. > Game developers use cross platform engines ...which is probably why MacOS doesn't have any games to speak of, innit? > Back then Microsoft was the most valuable and today…MS is the most valuable company. > Apple has literally been an integrated software/hardware company for almost 50 years What is your point?
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > Apple Maps, Apple Health, Apple Music (as you mentioned) the App Store, Siri, Safari and Password Manager all come to mind. What can Apple Maps do that Google Maps can’t do? What can Apple Health do that third party apps can’t do? Third parties like 1Password can be used in place of Apple passwords. There has been an API for for it years. Siri - there are third party hooks for Siri. Today if you have ChatGPT installed, you can activate Siri and say “Ask ChatGPT…” And as far as SMS, “consortiums” always lead to slow progress and least common denominator. RCS doesn’t even have encryption. Apple Music. What can it do that third parties can’t do? > It's part of a continued, overt and obvious strategy to stop cross-platform developers from porting their code to Mac. And yet there are Electron apps galore on Mac today. > which is probably why MacOS doesn't have any games to speak of, innit? It couldn’t possibly be because until three years ago that most Macs had poor graphics hardware and even today the Mac market share is tiny.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > What can Apple Maps do that Google Maps can’t do? What can Apple Health do that third party apps can’t do? [...] Everything. I don't doubt that Apple extends a ladder to these developers, but I also don't expect it to look any different than their "ladder" for third-party browsers. When Apple controls the API, they have a direct conflict of interest with their competitors. We see this most overtly with the App Store's exclusive happy-path installation route. I don't think every case will be treated equal, either. Apple will be allowed to retain some level of power asymmetry, but the outstanding question right now is how much? Their current control has been identified as anticompetitive by multiple large jurisdictions, so they're going to have to adjust policy at least partially to keep operating in the same markets. > And as far as SMS, “consortiums” always lead to slow progress and least common denominator. RCS doesn’t even have encryption. I agree; this is one of those fields where I want Google to pound sand so Apple can establish a better cross-platform replacement to SMS. Again, I feel like I have to repeat this every so often; I don't hate Apple users or Apple hardware, by-and-large. I hate the pervasive isolationist attitude that Apple amplifies, immunizing them from legitimate criticism and stopping customers from critically thinking about their purchase. I'm not the only one who identified this, and hardly the first. People have been talking about Apple's "reality distortion field" for decades now, it only makes sense that it would come to a head with the iPhone and App Store. > And yet there are Electron apps galore on Mac today. And on NetBSD as well. A screaming testament to the success of cross platform web browsers. > It couldn’t possibly be because until three years ago that most Macs had poor graphics hardware and even today the Mac market share is tiny. Surely. If you ignore Apple's mistaken hostility towards cross-platform graphics libraries and failure to provide a stable development target, it's definitely a hardware issue. Gotta manage your expectations anyways, it's not like Apple had outstanding commitments to Khronos Group in the first place. Even if they did, fat chance it would have helped gaming on Mac. What's someone gonna do, write a DirectX translator? If they did it wouldn't be for a puny, unprofitable API like Vulkan, right?

scarface_74 3y ago

> By creating yet another gate where they are exempt from the rules. You still haven’t given one example of where Apple has a competing service that puts them at an advantage over competitors based on private entitlements? > iMessage's neverending hermitage What can iMessage do that a competing messaging app can’t do? > Apple's gradual depreciation of cross-platform libraries How is not supporting a cross platform library given Apple a competitive advantage? Game developers use cross platform engines that abstract the difference and there have been cross platform web based cross platform SDKs forever like React Native. > If Apple can't isolate their hardware ambitions from their software ones, I feel like this will end with a judge threatening to break Apple into two companies a-la United States v. Microsoft Corp. Back then Microsoft was the most valuable and today…MS is the most valuable company. How did that work out? Apple has literally been an integrated software/hardware company for almost 50 years

smoldesu 3y ago
> You still haven’t given one example of where Apple has a competing service that puts them at an advantage over competitors based on private entitlements? Apple Maps, Apple Health, Apple Music (as you mentioned) the App Store, Siri, Safari and Password Manager all come to mind. > What can iMessage do that a competing messaging app can’t do? Functionally replace SMS. Apple knows they should have replaced SMS using a consortium of some sort, but they took advantage of the situation and bundled instead. Now SMS is a derilect mess, the alternatives are just as greedy as iMessage and nobody wants to work together. > How is not supporting a cross platform library given Apple a competitive advantage? It's part of a continued, overt and obvious strategy to stop cross-platform developers from porting their code to Mac. > Game developers use cross platform engines ...which is probably why MacOS doesn't have any games to speak of, innit? > Back then Microsoft was the most valuable and today…MS is the most valuable company. > Apple has literally been an integrated software/hardware company for almost 50 years What is your point?
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > Apple Maps, Apple Health, Apple Music (as you mentioned) the App Store, Siri, Safari and Password Manager all come to mind. What can Apple Maps do that Google Maps can’t do? What can Apple Health do that third party apps can’t do? Third parties like 1Password can be used in place of Apple passwords. There has been an API for for it years. Siri - there are third party hooks for Siri. Today if you have ChatGPT installed, you can activate Siri and say “Ask ChatGPT…” And as far as SMS, “consortiums” always lead to slow progress and least common denominator. RCS doesn’t even have encryption. Apple Music. What can it do that third parties can’t do? > It's part of a continued, overt and obvious strategy to stop cross-platform developers from porting their code to Mac. And yet there are Electron apps galore on Mac today. > which is probably why MacOS doesn't have any games to speak of, innit? It couldn’t possibly be because until three years ago that most Macs had poor graphics hardware and even today the Mac market share is tiny.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > What can Apple Maps do that Google Maps can’t do? What can Apple Health do that third party apps can’t do? [...] Everything. I don't doubt that Apple extends a ladder to these developers, but I also don't expect it to look any different than their "ladder" for third-party browsers. When Apple controls the API, they have a direct conflict of interest with their competitors. We see this most overtly with the App Store's exclusive happy-path installation route. I don't think every case will be treated equal, either. Apple will be allowed to retain some level of power asymmetry, but the outstanding question right now is how much? Their current control has been identified as anticompetitive by multiple large jurisdictions, so they're going to have to adjust policy at least partially to keep operating in the same markets. > And as far as SMS, “consortiums” always lead to slow progress and least common denominator. RCS doesn’t even have encryption. I agree; this is one of those fields where I want Google to pound sand so Apple can establish a better cross-platform replacement to SMS. Again, I feel like I have to repeat this every so often; I don't hate Apple users or Apple hardware, by-and-large. I hate the pervasive isolationist attitude that Apple amplifies, immunizing them from legitimate criticism and stopping customers from critically thinking about their purchase. I'm not the only one who identified this, and hardly the first. People have been talking about Apple's "reality distortion field" for decades now, it only makes sense that it would come to a head with the iPhone and App Store. > And yet there are Electron apps galore on Mac today. And on NetBSD as well. A screaming testament to the success of cross platform web browsers. > It couldn’t possibly be because until three years ago that most Macs had poor graphics hardware and even today the Mac market share is tiny. Surely. If you ignore Apple's mistaken hostility towards cross-platform graphics libraries and failure to provide a stable development target, it's definitely a hardware issue. Gotta manage your expectations anyways, it's not like Apple had outstanding commitments to Khronos Group in the first place. Even if they did, fat chance it would have helped gaming on Mac. What's someone gonna do, write a DirectX translator? If they did it wouldn't be for a puny, unprofitable API like Vulkan, right?