3 ms·

You've pointed to 'many' countries and also to laws stopping this. Now you've evaluated likelihood. Since you were able to drive a likelihood calculus, what s

You've pointed to 'many' countries and also to laws stopping this. Now you've evaluated likelihood. Since you were able to drive a likelihood calculus, what specific laws were you calculating against?

yial 3y ago
Not who you’re responding to but laws that govern this: Multinational: Hague Convention of 1907 1970 UNESCO 1995 UNIDROIT US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieber_Code https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieber_Code 2004 HR1047 section 204. (Those are more about stopping theft / destruction- not return.) UK: Except for human tissue, it’s basically not legally regulated. Australia: No laws. There is a government program for aboriginal art and remains. But as an example, Egypt frequently requests the return of the Rosetta Stone from the British Museum.
- beaeglebeached 3y ago
  Thanks for the deets. Do you know if UK has courts that handle people who sue one another? It looks as if you can file suit against the UK government. I'm genuinely curious, has someone with evidence of ownership sued the British Museum? I can see a compelling argument someone might claim ownership of the stone, I'm curious where in the process they were shut down, if they didn't try, or they did and their suit was dismissed.
  - yial 3y ago
    I’m Curious about this too actually. The closest “easy” thing would be a statutory claim I think. But you can’t make it if the debt is over 6 years old. https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands It appears you can sue for the return of property in civil court. https://www.askthe.police.uk/view-category/?id=2ec7e112-6ad2-eb11-bacb-000d3ad61986 https://www.askthe.police.uk/view-category/?id=2ec7e112-6ad2... I’m Sure though there’s complexity that make all of that not relevant if it’s a country suing. Usually international treaty comes into place when things are international. However, some interesting cases against the British museum. https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/a-uk-heritage-group-will-sue-british-museum-over-access-to-long-disputed-parthenon-marbles-1234623180/ https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/a-uk-heritage-group-wi... https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/world/europe/greece-british-museum-elgin-marbles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/world/europe/greece-briti... There’s a whole book on this dispute from a litigator. https://www.elginism.com/elgin-marbles/why-dont-we-just-sue-the-british-museum-a-litigators-perspective-on-the-elgin-marbles-debate/20121114/6713/ https://www.elginism.com/elgin-marbles/why-dont-we-just-sue-... And the British museum policy on giving back objects. https://www.britishmuseum.org/sites/default/files/2019-10/De-accession_Policy_Nov2018.pdf https://www.britishmuseum.org/sites/default/files/2019-10/De... Finally, it looks like The government may be preventing this. They may have been acted upon in 2005? And also https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2022/10/government-delays-bill-allowing-nationals-to-return-items-on-moral-grounds/ https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2022... However, this may answer all your questions. https://davidallengreen.com/2021/05/the-british-museum-looted-goods-and-the-law/ https://davidallengreen.com/2021/05/the-british-museum-loote...
    - beaeglebeached 3y ago
      This is awesome! Can't wait to dig in, thanks for the links.

yial 3y ago

Not who you’re responding to but laws that govern this: Multinational: Hague Convention of 1907 1970 UNESCO 1995 UNIDROIT US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieber_Code https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieber_Code 2004 HR1047 section 204. (Those are more about stopping theft / destruction- not return.) UK: Except for human tissue, it’s basically not legally regulated. Australia: No laws. There is a government program for aboriginal art and remains. But as an example, Egypt frequently requests the return of the Rosetta Stone from the British Museum.

beaeglebeached 3y ago
Thanks for the deets. Do you know if UK has courts that handle people who sue one another? It looks as if you can file suit against the UK government. I'm genuinely curious, has someone with evidence of ownership sued the British Museum? I can see a compelling argument someone might claim ownership of the stone, I'm curious where in the process they were shut down, if they didn't try, or they did and their suit was dismissed.
- yial 3y ago
  I’m Curious about this too actually. The closest “easy” thing would be a statutory claim I think. But you can’t make it if the debt is over 6 years old. https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands It appears you can sue for the return of property in civil court. https://www.askthe.police.uk/view-category/?id=2ec7e112-6ad2-eb11-bacb-000d3ad61986 https://www.askthe.police.uk/view-category/?id=2ec7e112-6ad2... I’m Sure though there’s complexity that make all of that not relevant if it’s a country suing. Usually international treaty comes into place when things are international. However, some interesting cases against the British museum. https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/a-uk-heritage-group-will-sue-british-museum-over-access-to-long-disputed-parthenon-marbles-1234623180/ https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/a-uk-heritage-group-wi... https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/world/europe/greece-british-museum-elgin-marbles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/world/europe/greece-briti... There’s a whole book on this dispute from a litigator. https://www.elginism.com/elgin-marbles/why-dont-we-just-sue-the-british-museum-a-litigators-perspective-on-the-elgin-marbles-debate/20121114/6713/ https://www.elginism.com/elgin-marbles/why-dont-we-just-sue-... And the British museum policy on giving back objects. https://www.britishmuseum.org/sites/default/files/2019-10/De-accession_Policy_Nov2018.pdf https://www.britishmuseum.org/sites/default/files/2019-10/De... Finally, it looks like The government may be preventing this. They may have been acted upon in 2005? And also https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2022/10/government-delays-bill-allowing-nationals-to-return-items-on-moral-grounds/ https://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/2022... However, this may answer all your questions. https://davidallengreen.com/2021/05/the-british-museum-looted-goods-and-the-law/ https://davidallengreen.com/2021/05/the-british-museum-loote...
  - beaeglebeached 3y ago
    This is awesome! Can't wait to dig in, thanks for the links.