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> Self-hosting has Become Easier > Self-hosting has become more reliable Docker and Kubernetes really are the two best things happened to me in my selfhosting

by zzyzxd 3y ago

> Self-hosting has Become Easier > Self-hosting has become more reliable Docker and Kubernetes really are the two best things happened to me in my selfhosting journey. They made billion dollar enterprise grade tech approachable in my homelab. - I powered on a brand new mini PC, 10 minutes later it showed up as a node in my cluster and started running some containers - Two servers died but I didn't notice until a month later, because everything just kept working. - Some database file got corrupted but the cluster automatically fixed it from a replica on another node. - I almost completely forget how to manage certs with letsencrypt, because the system will never miss the renewal window unless the very last server in my lab goes down.

paxys 3y ago
Add VPN to that list. It used to be a monumental pain to set up a home network, but now with something like Wireguard/Tailscale/ZeroTier/Nebula you can do it in a few clicks.
zilti 3y ago
Kubernetes is complete, utter overkill for almost everything.
- sgarland 3y ago
  Yes, but once you know how to use it, everything else is an annoying toy. Also, of course, it being the standard means there is no end of tooling designed to support it. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been frustrated at my current job because I have to wade through layers of ECS bullshit to do something. All that said, if you don’t need containers, turns out you can get a lot done with two servers behind HAProxy + keepalived, running stuff with systemd.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  I wonder what people's thoughts on KubeVela are (https://www.cncf.io/projects/kubevela/ https://www.cncf.io/projects/kubevela/) I've been pretty sour on Kubernetes, but this looks like it could bring some of the niceties of PaaS to k8s. I haven't looked into the deployment process yet though, perhaps that's where all the pain lies
- zzyzxd 3y ago
  You may enjoy learning and using different implementations for networking, storage, DNS, containerization...from time to time. But I just learnt Kubernetes and suddenly all those implementations become interchangeable and my knowledge is transferable between homelab and work, and even across companies and platforms.
- mplewis 3y ago
  Of course, because very few projects need every feature of Kubernetes. But most projects need three or four of them, and many projects need something from the long tail too. I’ve been running my personal cluster happily on k8s for years.
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
These are great operational wins. Agreed very much that having autonomic (can fix itself) systems at your back is a massive game changer. De-crustifies the act of running things. The other win is that there's a substantial cultural base to this way to go. Folks have been doing selfhosting for ages, but everyone has their own boutique setup some their way. A couple tools and techniques could be shared, but mostly everyone took blank slate configs & built their own system up, & added their own monitoring & operational scripts. https://github.com/onedr0p/home-ops https://github.com/onedr0p/home-ops is a set of helm scripts and other tools that is widely widely used, and there's a lot more like it. It's a huge build out, using convention and a common platform to enable portable knowledge & sharing. Self hosting did not have intellectual scale out at it's back, before Kubernetes came along. Docker and ansible and others have been around, but theres never been remotely the success there has been today in empowering users to setup & run complex services. We really have clawed out of the server-hugging jungle &started building some villages. It's wonderful to see.
- zzyzxd 3y ago
  IMHO they are the same wins. Because behind all these, the real value is standardization. Kubernetes offers standard APIs and all the vendors fall in line with their own implementations. As a result, the software I run in my homelab for free, is the same software battle-tested in various enterprise environments, from 5-person startups to planet-scale mega corps. There are paid engineers and companies out there making serious long term commitment to it. This is truly amazing.
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
    I really like your first post, because it highlights so many real fantastic wins, about how life is different & how the system really helps. And I felt like we have had so many promises from various bits of software & professional teams about how they will heal and help us. But it hasn't planned out. The Mesos of the world, the OpenStacks of the world: they all have made similar claims to what you are saying, but something is so different this time. It's working. It's adding up. Folks absolutely try to throw the "complexity" of it under the bus, but there's something incredibly simple about the pattern here of using apiserver to state your desires, and letting various controllers/operators work it all out, keep it going. It's a simple, repeatable pattern. And the consistency of it all allows for systems like Helm to emerge. Not even great, but ok, adequate and demonstrating how portable the consistent platform of Kubernetes really is; it just works. Something is different this time, even though so much sounds the same as previous dances around. It sounds complex, but many many people can get more onboard, the scope is more right sized to fit all the concerns, and the way that asking for things is just making a manifest is so much more accessible than before. What is different this time? Why is this working this time? Why are there such more vibrant communities?

by zzyzxd 3y ago

paxys 3y ago

Add VPN to that list. It used to be a monumental pain to set up a home network, but now with something like Wireguard/Tailscale/ZeroTier/Nebula you can do it in a few clicks.

zilti 3y ago

Kubernetes is complete, utter overkill for almost everything.

sgarland 3y ago
Yes, but once you know how to use it, everything else is an annoying toy. Also, of course, it being the standard means there is no end of tooling designed to support it. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been frustrated at my current job because I have to wade through layers of ECS bullshit to do something. All that said, if you don’t need containers, turns out you can get a lot done with two servers behind HAProxy + keepalived, running stuff with systemd.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
I wonder what people's thoughts on KubeVela are (https://www.cncf.io/projects/kubevela/ https://www.cncf.io/projects/kubevela/) I've been pretty sour on Kubernetes, but this looks like it could bring some of the niceties of PaaS to k8s. I haven't looked into the deployment process yet though, perhaps that's where all the pain lies
zzyzxd 3y ago
You may enjoy learning and using different implementations for networking, storage, DNS, containerization...from time to time. But I just learnt Kubernetes and suddenly all those implementations become interchangeable and my knowledge is transferable between homelab and work, and even across companies and platforms.
mplewis 3y ago
Of course, because very few projects need every feature of Kubernetes. But most projects need three or four of them, and many projects need something from the long tail too. I’ve been running my personal cluster happily on k8s for years.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

These are great operational wins. Agreed very much that having autonomic (can fix itself) systems at your back is a massive game changer. De-crustifies the act of running things. The other win is that there's a substantial cultural base to this way to go. Folks have been doing selfhosting for ages, but everyone has their own boutique setup some their way. A couple tools and techniques could be shared, but mostly everyone took blank slate configs & built their own system up, & added their own monitoring & operational scripts. https://github.com/onedr0p/home-ops https://github.com/onedr0p/home-ops is a set of helm scripts and other tools that is widely widely used, and there's a lot more like it. It's a huge build out, using convention and a common platform to enable portable knowledge & sharing. Self hosting did not have intellectual scale out at it's back, before Kubernetes came along. Docker and ansible and others have been around, but theres never been remotely the success there has been today in empowering users to setup & run complex services. We really have clawed out of the server-hugging jungle &started building some villages. It's wonderful to see.

zzyzxd 3y ago
IMHO they are the same wins. Because behind all these, the real value is standardization. Kubernetes offers standard APIs and all the vendors fall in line with their own implementations. As a result, the software I run in my homelab for free, is the same software battle-tested in various enterprise environments, from 5-person startups to planet-scale mega corps. There are paid engineers and companies out there making serious long term commitment to it. This is truly amazing.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  I really like your first post, because it highlights so many real fantastic wins, about how life is different & how the system really helps. And I felt like we have had so many promises from various bits of software & professional teams about how they will heal and help us. But it hasn't planned out. The Mesos of the world, the OpenStacks of the world: they all have made similar claims to what you are saying, but something is so different this time. It's working. It's adding up. Folks absolutely try to throw the "complexity" of it under the bus, but there's something incredibly simple about the pattern here of using apiserver to state your desires, and letting various controllers/operators work it all out, keep it going. It's a simple, repeatable pattern. And the consistency of it all allows for systems like Helm to emerge. Not even great, but ok, adequate and demonstrating how portable the consistent platform of Kubernetes really is; it just works. Something is different this time, even though so much sounds the same as previous dances around. It sounds complex, but many many people can get more onboard, the scope is more right sized to fit all the concerns, and the way that asking for things is just making a manifest is so much more accessible than before. What is different this time? Why is this working this time? Why are there such more vibrant communities?