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I'm hoping that immune therapies for cancer continue to improve. My dog got an experimental immunotherapy for his Hemangiosarcoma tumor (which is incurable). Du

I'm hoping that immune therapies for cancer continue to improve. My dog got an experimental immunotherapy for his Hemangiosarcoma tumor (which is incurable). Due to the advanced state of the tumor (he had to have his spleen removed in emergency surgery due to the tumor, plus it had spread to other organs), he was given a 2 - 4 month survival time, he's on month 4 now. There's not enough data to say if the immune therapy is helping (he's on traditional low-dose chemo as well), but it seems promising. The company (Torigen.com) is focused on animal treatment for now, but sees applications for humans in the future.

jackblemming 3y ago
[flagged]
- Johnny555 3y ago
  Well, medical decisions are rarely that clear cut... the source of the bleeding spleen was unknown. All we knew is that he was bleeding out from his spleen and based on the volume of fluid in his abdomen, he wouldn't survive until tomorrow. It was "probably" a tumor, but the ultrasound was not clear and if it was a tumor, there was a 60% chance it was cancer. And we had 30 minutes to decide whether or not to take the surgical slot as they couldn't hold it beyond then... if we didn't opt for surgery we'd need to euthanize the dog. So the choice was "immediate death or surgery plus a 40% chance of returning to normal". After the biopsy came back and it was Hemangiosarcoma, then we opted for the experimental treatment coupled with low-dose chemo, which had a low chance of side effects that affect quality of life. The experimental vaccine was both to hedge our bets (it wouldn't hurt, and it could help, especially if he developed side effects to the chemo and we had to stop the treatment), and to give the company a little more data on the effectiveness of their treatment (even if we had to pay for it). And indeed, he's had a good quality of life - he was fully recovered from the splenectomy in a week (though we had to keep him movement restricted for another week until the stitches came out), and so far he's 100% back to normal, showing no side effects from the chemo and his activity levels are still back to normal.
  - m463 3y ago
    > we had 30 minutes to decide The older I've gotten the more I've been in these kinds of situations. As a kid you are shielded from stuff, and it catches people so... unprepared.
    - Johnny555 3y ago
      >As a kid you are shielded from stuff, and it catches people so... unprepared. Yeah, I still remember my dad going in to the hospital one weekend for what he thought was heartburn, but mom made him go anyway... he didn't come home for 2 weeks after being admitted and receiving triple bypass cardiac surgery. In the dog's case, we thought he ate something bad, he was a little lethargic but otherwise seemed ok, no fever or anything... we almost decided to wait a couple days to see if he got over it before taking him to the vet. Even the vet seemed shocked when she came back in the room to tell us the diagnosis from the ultrasound. We never expected to be deciding whether he'd live or die that day.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Im not familiar with how animal medicene work. When you say it was an experimental treatment, does that mean your pet participated in a registered study by the manufacturer? If so, did the manufacturer pick up the cost? Alternatively, do you mean that the treatment was experimental because it was off label use, and outside of a study?
    - Johnny555 3y ago
      I encourage you to visit their website to learn more as I'm just interpreting what our oncologist told us about the Torigen vaccine. It's not part of a funded study so you have to purchase the vaccine and agree to let your vet provide followup information back to the company. Our dog's oncologist recommended it and said they've seen promising results in other patients, but wouldn't go so far as to say that it would prolong his life. The only published data I've seen from the company is a safety study. We got the vaccine mostly as a hedge in case the chemo didn't work or he had side effects and we had to discontinue it, but also to provide data back to the company on their vaccine in the hopes that it will help other animals or for future human applications. So yeah, I'm basically paying them for their research with the only thing I'm getting in return is possibly a longer lifespan for my dog (but there's very little data to prove that it works)
- odyssey7 3y ago
  Two scenarios for testing experimental cancer therapies for dogs. Either you use the experimental therapy to treat cancers when they naturally occur in dogs, or you somehow give cancer to otherwise healthy dogs and then use the therapies to treat the cancer.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  It isnt the choice that I would make, but what other people do with their money is their own business, and the science may prove useful. However, those that call for state funded animal insurance, or mandates truly strike me as unhinged.
  - timcobb 3y ago
    Yikes! Who knew this was a thing...
  - Johnny555 3y ago
    >However, those that call for state funded animal insurance, or mandates truly strike me as unhinged. I've never heard of such a thing, and a quick Google search didn't find anything -- is this a real movement, or something you heard from someone you know? The closest I could find was a movement to support the right to have pets in apartments and/or public housing.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      It is a "real thing" in that I see people advocate for it fairly often on social media, and more rarely HN. It isn't a real thing in that I haven't heard of any actual politicians advocating for it in the US. However, I just learned that mandatory pet This [1] and this [2[, were top non-sponsored results when I google searched "manditory pet insurance". I also noticed that Spain has introduced mandatory registration, liability insurance, and training classes for all dog owners in the country. https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2023/02/15/great-debate-should-a-basic-pet-insurance-be-mandatory/ https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2023/02/15/great-debate-shou... https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/iohxzf/cmv_pet_insurance_should_be_mandatory/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/iohxzf/cmv_pe...
      - harshreality 3y ago
        Liability insurance is not medical insurance.
tcbawo 3y ago
I am sorry to hear about your dog. Pets can be an integral part of one's family, which often (sadly) goes unacknowledged. My first dog died of hemangiosarcoma. There were no treatments besides chemotherapy at the time. From a cursory search, your dog's treatment appears somewhat reasonably priced. Scientific progress is amazing. I hope the treatments go well.

jackblemming 3y ago

[flagged]

Johnny555 3y ago
Well, medical decisions are rarely that clear cut... the source of the bleeding spleen was unknown. All we knew is that he was bleeding out from his spleen and based on the volume of fluid in his abdomen, he wouldn't survive until tomorrow. It was "probably" a tumor, but the ultrasound was not clear and if it was a tumor, there was a 60% chance it was cancer. And we had 30 minutes to decide whether or not to take the surgical slot as they couldn't hold it beyond then... if we didn't opt for surgery we'd need to euthanize the dog. So the choice was "immediate death or surgery plus a 40% chance of returning to normal". After the biopsy came back and it was Hemangiosarcoma, then we opted for the experimental treatment coupled with low-dose chemo, which had a low chance of side effects that affect quality of life. The experimental vaccine was both to hedge our bets (it wouldn't hurt, and it could help, especially if he developed side effects to the chemo and we had to stop the treatment), and to give the company a little more data on the effectiveness of their treatment (even if we had to pay for it). And indeed, he's had a good quality of life - he was fully recovered from the splenectomy in a week (though we had to keep him movement restricted for another week until the stitches came out), and so far he's 100% back to normal, showing no side effects from the chemo and his activity levels are still back to normal.
- m463 3y ago
  > we had 30 minutes to decide The older I've gotten the more I've been in these kinds of situations. As a kid you are shielded from stuff, and it catches people so... unprepared.
  - Johnny555 3y ago
    >As a kid you are shielded from stuff, and it catches people so... unprepared. Yeah, I still remember my dad going in to the hospital one weekend for what he thought was heartburn, but mom made him go anyway... he didn't come home for 2 weeks after being admitted and receiving triple bypass cardiac surgery. In the dog's case, we thought he ate something bad, he was a little lethargic but otherwise seemed ok, no fever or anything... we almost decided to wait a couple days to see if he got over it before taking him to the vet. Even the vet seemed shocked when she came back in the room to tell us the diagnosis from the ultrasound. We never expected to be deciding whether he'd live or die that day.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Im not familiar with how animal medicene work. When you say it was an experimental treatment, does that mean your pet participated in a registered study by the manufacturer? If so, did the manufacturer pick up the cost? Alternatively, do you mean that the treatment was experimental because it was off label use, and outside of a study?
  - Johnny555 3y ago
    I encourage you to visit their website to learn more as I'm just interpreting what our oncologist told us about the Torigen vaccine. It's not part of a funded study so you have to purchase the vaccine and agree to let your vet provide followup information back to the company. Our dog's oncologist recommended it and said they've seen promising results in other patients, but wouldn't go so far as to say that it would prolong his life. The only published data I've seen from the company is a safety study. We got the vaccine mostly as a hedge in case the chemo didn't work or he had side effects and we had to discontinue it, but also to provide data back to the company on their vaccine in the hopes that it will help other animals or for future human applications. So yeah, I'm basically paying them for their research with the only thing I'm getting in return is possibly a longer lifespan for my dog (but there's very little data to prove that it works)
odyssey7 3y ago
Two scenarios for testing experimental cancer therapies for dogs. Either you use the experimental therapy to treat cancers when they naturally occur in dogs, or you somehow give cancer to otherwise healthy dogs and then use the therapies to treat the cancer.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
It isnt the choice that I would make, but what other people do with their money is their own business, and the science may prove useful. However, those that call for state funded animal insurance, or mandates truly strike me as unhinged.
- timcobb 3y ago
  Yikes! Who knew this was a thing...
- Johnny555 3y ago
  >However, those that call for state funded animal insurance, or mandates truly strike me as unhinged. I've never heard of such a thing, and a quick Google search didn't find anything -- is this a real movement, or something you heard from someone you know? The closest I could find was a movement to support the right to have pets in apartments and/or public housing.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    It is a "real thing" in that I see people advocate for it fairly often on social media, and more rarely HN. It isn't a real thing in that I haven't heard of any actual politicians advocating for it in the US. However, I just learned that mandatory pet This [1] and this [2[, were top non-sponsored results when I google searched "manditory pet insurance". I also noticed that Spain has introduced mandatory registration, liability insurance, and training classes for all dog owners in the country. https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2023/02/15/great-debate-should-a-basic-pet-insurance-be-mandatory/ https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2023/02/15/great-debate-shou... https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/iohxzf/cmv_pet_insurance_should_be_mandatory/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/iohxzf/cmv_pe...
    - harshreality 3y ago
      Liability insurance is not medical insurance.

tcbawo 3y ago

I am sorry to hear about your dog. Pets can be an integral part of one's family, which often (sadly) goes unacknowledged. My first dog died of hemangiosarcoma. There were no treatments besides chemotherapy at the time. From a cursory search, your dog's treatment appears somewhat reasonably priced. Scientific progress is amazing. I hope the treatments go well.