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> An arrest record is still particularly damming to one's life. The solution then, IMO, is that if you're arrested for being suspected of a crime, and later fo

> An arrest record is still particularly damming to one's life. The solution then, IMO, is that if you're arrested for being suspected of a crime, and later found innocent or the charges are dropped, then the arrest should be removed from your record.

godelski 3y ago
I'm perfectly fine with this solution and will even advocate for it. But many others have been trying to unsuccessfully. So I think let them continue their efforts, do bring attention to is, but also not be reliant on them fixing the problem. I should also add that arrests are public. So even if you are not convicted the arrest record may be found by a third party who is going to be less incentivized to expunge that data. So there's extra complexity to this too and why we should also not be reliant upon that solution.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  > I should also add that arrests are public. That's a good point. My knee-jerk reaction is to think that maybe they shouldn't be, but there's a million reasons why they should.
  - godelski 3y ago
    Yeah it is quite a tough call really. But I think this is why it is so important to consider nuance. I think it is easy not to and we forget that what explicitly makes an expert is consideration of nuance. By definition this needs be true because if it was obvious you wouldn't require significant education lol. I want to also add that there are no globally optimal solutions. So everything has a downside and I think we often fall for this trap in an effort to support our priors and do not accurately compare. So it is easy to get into polarizing arguments because while we argue about the same problem we often do not have similar optimization criteria. I've found clarifying optimization criteria helps defuse these types of arguments. I hate to say it, but CS people also have a bad reputation around this. My hypothesis is that programmers often work in many different domains and are exposed to domain knowledge, but as we all know, it is exceptionally easy to deceive one's self into thinking they know more than they do (just go on any social media platform, including HN, if you doubt this lol. My personal favorite is to watch people who can't do calculus argue with Judea Pearl on Twitter)
jrflowers 3y ago
Exactly. The solution is simply to have had the system work differently in the past.

godelski 3y ago

I'm perfectly fine with this solution and will even advocate for it. But many others have been trying to unsuccessfully. So I think let them continue their efforts, do bring attention to is, but also not be reliant on them fixing the problem. I should also add that arrests are public. So even if you are not convicted the arrest record may be found by a third party who is going to be less incentivized to expunge that data. So there's extra complexity to this too and why we should also not be reliant upon that solution.

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
> I should also add that arrests are public. That's a good point. My knee-jerk reaction is to think that maybe they shouldn't be, but there's a million reasons why they should.
- godelski 3y ago
  Yeah it is quite a tough call really. But I think this is why it is so important to consider nuance. I think it is easy not to and we forget that what explicitly makes an expert is consideration of nuance. By definition this needs be true because if it was obvious you wouldn't require significant education lol. I want to also add that there are no globally optimal solutions. So everything has a downside and I think we often fall for this trap in an effort to support our priors and do not accurately compare. So it is easy to get into polarizing arguments because while we argue about the same problem we often do not have similar optimization criteria. I've found clarifying optimization criteria helps defuse these types of arguments. I hate to say it, but CS people also have a bad reputation around this. My hypothesis is that programmers often work in many different domains and are exposed to domain knowledge, but as we all know, it is exceptionally easy to deceive one's self into thinking they know more than they do (just go on any social media platform, including HN, if you doubt this lol. My personal favorite is to watch people who can't do calculus argue with Judea Pearl on Twitter)

jrflowers 3y ago

Exactly. The solution is simply to have had the system work differently in the past.