7 ms·

Tanner is one of those people I might disagree politically with from time to time but who nevertheless convinces me of the alternative point of view regularly.

Tanner is one of those people I might disagree politically with from time to time but who nevertheless convinces me of the alternative point of view regularly. I see he disses my man Herodotus right off, so now I need to read this to see why. There is, of course, a margin of "losing" from which no history can return. Anyone know about Khazar history? What happened to those guys? The Mongols happened. His series on the Soviet "cybernetics" movement was also fascinating.

miroljub 3y ago
[flagged]
- beretguy 3y ago
  Would you mind providing links to those “true sources”, please? I’m curious to do some research for myself.
  - bazoom42 3y ago
    They are probably alluding to antisemitic conspiracy therories.
  - shakow 3y ago
    He is probably alluding to the Khazar hypothesis, according to which at least part of the Eastern European (and thus Ashkenazi in general) Jews have Khazar ascendancy. The scale is very much subject to discussion, but genetic evidences[0] support the core idea. [0] https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/75/730630 https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/75/730630
  - fjoireoipe 3y ago
    they are probably referencing an antisemitic conspiracy theory. I can't tell whether as a joke, or seriously. In any case, it should probably be downvoted, or dang should remove it. it's psuedohistory, invented to spead hate.
    - tut-urut-utut 3y ago
      I think it’s obviously it’s a joke. However, there’s even a smiley at the end of the comment, as a clue for the people with broken humour detector. I hope you saw it.
      - ahoka 3y ago
        You can’t just jokingly say “this is a robbery” in a bank though.
      - hnbad 3y ago
        If you have any familiarity with the kind of people seriously spreading these kinds of conspiracy theories, you'll know that framing "truth bombs" as jokes is par for the course because it creates plausible deniability. If it really is a joke, what is the punchline? How does it work? What's being made fun of? That it would be outrageous for someone to say that seriously? As "red pillers" like to say: keep making jokes until the joke really lands (i.e. accustom people to hearing it by framing it as a crass joke so they'll no longer flinch when it is said in earnest).
      - klyrs 3y ago
        Ah yes, the "humor" of repeating an obscure antisemitic conspiracy theory. It's "funny" because it's obscure enough that the majority of the audience will assume it to be innocent, and liable to jump to the the speaker's defense against the apparent "crazies" who take offense. Like a silent fart, the "joke" is on the audience, and a smile merely indicates that the author is amused.
    - cassepipe 3y ago
      Fine but this one seems weirdly specific so we'd like to know which conspiracy it is. How is it antisemitic ? Are Khazars secretly running the world from Atlantis ?
- miroljub 3y ago
  Sorry people, in this post I was mocking the conspiracy theorists, and you take it as a conspiracy theory itself and accuse me of being an antisemite? WTF? If that's the consensus, dang should delete the post. Besides, you know that Khazars are not alone? They are supported by the Nazis from the dark side of the moon. "They" just don't want you to see this truth. But they are all just servants of the lizards from the Earth, who only leave their habitat when they show up masked as a royal family in Buckingham Palace. Should I put a :) or a /s or some other sign to make it clear it's a joke or sarcasm?
korse 3y ago
Why is cybernetics quoted?
- MilStdJunkie 3y ago
  Had a different shade of meaning in the Soviet context from the way we use the word today - more like "Computer Science" or "Automatic Theory", rather than robotic or human-robotic or "cyberpunky".
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    It had the same different meaning outside the Soviet context too. Check out, for example, Norbert Wiener, as American as they come and considered the inventor of "cybernetics" in that "old-school" sense.
    - korse 3y ago
      https://bailiping.github.io/assets/docs/Books/Cybernetics,%20or%20Control%20and%20Communication%20in%20the%20Animal%20and%20the%20Machine%20by%20Norbert%20Wiener.pdf https://bailiping.github.io/assets/docs/Books/Cybernetics,%2...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - korse 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure the Soviet context is actually the correct one. The robotics tie in isn't far off though, as some of the earliest autonomous mobile robots spawned from cybernetics research.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      > I'm pretty sure the Soviet context is actually the correct one. Just to clarify, do you mean that the Soviet context is the same as the modern context or that the modern context misuses the term in some way (or something else that I missed)?

miroljub 3y ago

[flagged]

beretguy 3y ago
Would you mind providing links to those “true sources”, please? I’m curious to do some research for myself.
- bazoom42 3y ago
  They are probably alluding to antisemitic conspiracy therories.
- shakow 3y ago
  He is probably alluding to the Khazar hypothesis, according to which at least part of the Eastern European (and thus Ashkenazi in general) Jews have Khazar ascendancy. The scale is very much subject to discussion, but genetic evidences[0] support the core idea. [0] https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/75/730630 https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/75/730630
- fjoireoipe 3y ago
  they are probably referencing an antisemitic conspiracy theory. I can't tell whether as a joke, or seriously. In any case, it should probably be downvoted, or dang should remove it. it's psuedohistory, invented to spead hate.
  - tut-urut-utut 3y ago
    I think it’s obviously it’s a joke. However, there’s even a smiley at the end of the comment, as a clue for the people with broken humour detector. I hope you saw it.
    - ahoka 3y ago
      You can’t just jokingly say “this is a robbery” in a bank though.
    - hnbad 3y ago
      If you have any familiarity with the kind of people seriously spreading these kinds of conspiracy theories, you'll know that framing "truth bombs" as jokes is par for the course because it creates plausible deniability. If it really is a joke, what is the punchline? How does it work? What's being made fun of? That it would be outrageous for someone to say that seriously? As "red pillers" like to say: keep making jokes until the joke really lands (i.e. accustom people to hearing it by framing it as a crass joke so they'll no longer flinch when it is said in earnest).
    - klyrs 3y ago
      Ah yes, the "humor" of repeating an obscure antisemitic conspiracy theory. It's "funny" because it's obscure enough that the majority of the audience will assume it to be innocent, and liable to jump to the the speaker's defense against the apparent "crazies" who take offense. Like a silent fart, the "joke" is on the audience, and a smile merely indicates that the author is amused.
  - cassepipe 3y ago
    Fine but this one seems weirdly specific so we'd like to know which conspiracy it is. How is it antisemitic ? Are Khazars secretly running the world from Atlantis ?
miroljub 3y ago
Sorry people, in this post I was mocking the conspiracy theorists, and you take it as a conspiracy theory itself and accuse me of being an antisemite? WTF? If that's the consensus, dang should delete the post. Besides, you know that Khazars are not alone? They are supported by the Nazis from the dark side of the moon. "They" just don't want you to see this truth. But they are all just servants of the lizards from the Earth, who only leave their habitat when they show up masked as a royal family in Buckingham Palace. Should I put a :) or a /s or some other sign to make it clear it's a joke or sarcasm?

korse 3y ago

Why is cybernetics quoted?

MilStdJunkie 3y ago
Had a different shade of meaning in the Soviet context from the way we use the word today - more like "Computer Science" or "Automatic Theory", rather than robotic or human-robotic or "cyberpunky".
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  It had the same different meaning outside the Soviet context too. Check out, for example, Norbert Wiener, as American as they come and considered the inventor of "cybernetics" in that "old-school" sense.
  - korse 3y ago
    https://bailiping.github.io/assets/docs/Books/Cybernetics,%20or%20Control%20and%20Communication%20in%20the%20Animal%20and%20the%20Machine%20by%20Norbert%20Wiener.pdf https://bailiping.github.io/assets/docs/Books/Cybernetics,%2...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- korse 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure the Soviet context is actually the correct one. The robotics tie in isn't far off though, as some of the earliest autonomous mobile robots spawned from cybernetics research.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    > I'm pretty sure the Soviet context is actually the correct one. Just to clarify, do you mean that the Soviet context is the same as the modern context or that the modern context misuses the term in some way (or something else that I missed)?